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Author Topic: Indicators Fast Flashing issue  (Read 16137 times)
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2011, 07:01:14 PM »

Unless you are a real purist, fit an electronic flasher relay and separate the brake warning circuit out from the hazards/indicators.

Cheers R
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2011, 07:14:19 PM »

Unless you are a real purist, fit an electronic flasher relay and separate the brake warning circuit out from the hazards/indicators.

Cheers R
Is it hard to revert back?  Tongue Because I could be cheeky do that for now and revert back when and if I find another proper relay.  Tongue

Ok had to reread I get the basic principle, so take the wire off the brake warning light, so you would have only the Hazard and Indicator leads then put that into an electronic one? What type of flasher unit would it be? Thanks Grin
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 07:22:15 PM by piacevole1300 » Logged
rachaeljf
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« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2011, 09:00:41 PM »

Ah, so you are a purist! Well, you can do without the brake warning light flasher for a while. Just get an electronic flasher from eBay or your local motor factor. Be careful with the connections as pin-outs vary. Electronic ones generally have a switched permanent/ignition live input from the hazard switch, an output back to the hazard switch and thence to the indicators, and finally an earth connection.

I would offer you mine but I'm certain my car had separate indicator and brake flashers. I have rewired my car for an interior fusebox (ex Uno Turbo).
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2011, 09:49:23 PM »

Ok so instead of writing a book I thought I would post another video a bit more in-depth into the problem and I undid what I did because either I did it wrong or it doesn't work but anyway if this sheds any light on the problem before I get an electric indicator relay Tongue

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wux5Nu7O-jE
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2011, 09:54:57 PM »

Ah, so you are a purist! Well, you can do without the brake warning light flasher for a while. Just get an electronic flasher from eBay or your local motor factor. Be careful with the connections as pin-outs vary. Electronic ones generally have a switched permanent/ignition live input from the hazard switch, an output back to the hazard switch and thence to the indicators, and finally an earth connection.

I would offer you mine but I'm certain my car had separate indicator and brake flashers. I have rewired my car for an interior fusebox (ex Uno Turbo).
Well I do love cars the way the manufacturer intended Tongue So the right one will bolt straight on minus the Handbrake warning light?

Ah thank you anyway! Grin
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2011, 10:33:02 PM »

The hazards and the handbrake flash rates on their own look correct, but everything else looks wrong. It may be that you have a poor connection in the supply side, so that not enough current is drawn to give the correct flash rate. Generally, the smaller the current the faster it should flash. This is why the handbrake flashes fast as it's only a small wattage bulb. Similarly, when a bulb blows in an otherwise healthy flasher system, it flashes faster - this serves to warn you that a bulb has gone. I will have to study the wiring diagram to see how the combined flasher relay is supposed to work.

I have all respect for those who like to keep a car absolutely factory original. For me, I've always been a tinkerer since I was little (clocks were my favourite victims, much to my parents' annoyance!), so I can't help making changes to my cars. Unfortunately, like the clocks that never worked again, my projects generally never finish.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2011, 10:58:24 PM »

The hazards and the handbrake flash rates on their own look correct, but everything else looks wrong. It may be that you have a poor connection in the supply side, so that not enough current is drawn to give the correct flash rate. Generally, the smaller the current the faster it should flash. This is why the handbrake flashes fast as it's only a small wattage bulb. Similarly, when a bulb blows in an otherwise healthy flasher system, it flashes faster - this serves to warn you that a bulb has gone. I will have to study the wiring diagram to see how the combined flasher relay is supposed to work.

I have all respect for those who like to keep a car absolutely factory original. For me, I've always been a tinkerer since I was little (clocks were my favourite victims, much to my parents' annoyance!), so I can't help making changes to my cars. Unfortunately, like the clocks that never worked again, my projects generally never finish.
Ah so indicators and Hazards are fine but I don't get why if there all on the same connection to the relay why the indicators behave oddly and none of the bulbs are out of sync from one another or not as bright. Ok I have one too which came with the manual but its Chinese for beginners to me.  Undecided

Haha, I find things fun to take apart but putting them back together is the challenge.
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2011, 12:12:44 AM »

I can't say what's going on, I'll try and figure it out and get back to you.

Cheers R
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2011, 12:38:14 AM »

I can't say what's going on, I'll try and figure it out and get back to you.

Cheers R
Do you think getting a little bit bigger wattage bulbs might help just to see if that cures the problem? Because if you think about it its using all the current on hazards because all the lights are on meaning nice and slow but if the bulbs I threw in maybe was too small it could make them go crazy? I don't know I am only brain storming... er, mean mind mapping  Roll Eyes
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2011, 03:09:19 PM »

I don't think it's worth trying to get higher wattage bulbs, even if they are available. That's treating the symptom but not the cause!

It seems the Haynes BoL doesn't show this combined flasher relay arrangement. However, I don't see why you can't use any standard hazard/indicator relay. All you need to do is connect the handbrake warning light supply to the same pin that supplies the hazard switch i.e. the "L" terminal on the relay. This would give you a (rapid) flashing handbrake warning light when the handbrake is on with ignition on. When you operate the hazards or indicators in normal use, with the handbrake released, everything would be normal. When you operate the hazards or indicators with the handbrake on, its warning light would flash in time with the indicators and their warning light(s). This is ok, as it is still telling you that the handbrake is on.

Come to think of it, this appears to be the way yours is operating now, so maybe that is how the OEM relay is wired.

The strange flashing rate is due to a faulty relay or a poor connection in the supply side I would guess.
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2011, 03:22:40 PM »

Further to my last ramble: The indicators operate from an ignition switched supply, which is also what the voltmeter measures. The hazards operate from a permanent live supply, so they won't affect the voltmeter. What your symptoms tell me is that there is a poor connection in the ignition supply upstream of the voltmeter and indicator switch.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2011, 03:31:16 PM »

Further to my last ramble: The indicators operate from an ignition switched supply, which is also what the voltmeter measures. The hazards operate from a permanent live supply, so they won't affect the voltmeter. What your symptoms tell me is that there is a poor connection in the ignition supply upstream of the voltmeter and indicator switch.
I am so confused  Tongue where and what would I look for to find a bad connection. I am not too good on electrical stuff!

Oh yeah I was looking in the boot at the lights removed the carpet and noticed that on the drivers side there was one loose wire that went nowhere and 4 earths connected to the body then looked on the passenger side there was 3 loose wires going nowhere and also on that side there was only one earth, could this be something that could affect it? I thought it was highly odd.
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2011, 04:09:42 PM »

You've got a problem, every time I come on here I see you!

I'm afraid you might need to learn up on electrics, or take it to an electrician (ouch). Have you got a multimeter?
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2011, 04:17:35 PM »

You've got a problem, every time I come on here I see you!

I'm afraid you might need to learn up on electrics, or take it to an electrician (ouch). Have you got a multimeter?
Haha, too true. Well I looked at wiring diagram and yes its supposed to have 4 earths on one side and 1 on the other but those wires come out of the blue! Also looking at the front under the steering column apart from finding two recepts for petrol in 1986 and an old cassette tape there is a quite a few loose wires not going anywhere and also a seven outlet junction box with nothing connected  Undecided Getting it to an electrician will be the hard part as its not MOT'd. Yep I've got a multimeter.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2011, 04:35:21 PM »

Oh and just noticed that when I turn the key with the handbrake off no hazards or indicators it makes one click and never does it again. Strange... This car certainly needs an auto electrician I think.
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thecolonel
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 04:41:58 PM »

That would suggets that the handbrake is acting as earth for the relay, check the earth blocks near the haz relay
rapid indicators would also suggest faulty earth.
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 04:48:40 PM »

Ok, if you have a wiring diagram and a multimeter you are sorted! With the indicators operating, check the voltage at each connector, working upstream from the flasher relay back to the ignition switch. Test both sides of each connector. When you come to a connector that doesn't show that obvious voltage flick on its upstream side, there's the offender.

A faulty earth wouldn't give the flicking voltmeter symptom. This indicates the voltage is being dropped somewhere upstream, i.e. in the wiring from battery -> ignition switch -> fuse(s) -> hazard switch -> flasher relay.

The extra wires in the back sound like someone's tried to bodge around a wiring fault, or you've had a towbar fitted at some time. Is the 7 pole connector a round black one? They are usually the connections between the front and rear looms. There are similar ones under the dash, one at each side.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 04:52:42 PM »

That would suggets that the handbrake is acting as earth for the relay, check the earth blocks near the haz relay
rapid indicators would also suggest faulty earth.
Ok but I can't see any earthing points under where the relay is  Undecided
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2011, 04:57:57 PM »

Ok, if you have a wiring diagram and a multimeter you are sorted! With the indicators operating, check the voltage at each connector, working upstream from the flasher relay back to the ignition switch. Test both sides of each connector. When you come to a connector that doesn't show that obvious voltage flick on its upstream side, there's the offender.

A faulty earth wouldn't give the flicking voltmeter symptom. This indicates the voltage is being dropped somewhere upstream, i.e. in the wiring from battery -> ignition switch -> fuse(s) -> hazard switch -> flasher relay.

The extra wires in the back sound like someone's tried to bodge around a wiring fault, or you've had a towbar fitted at some time. Is the 7 pole connector a round black one? They are usually the connections between the front and rear looms. There are similar ones under the dash, one at each side.
Ah ok, so start at the relay work my up, I am starting to understand this diagram but parts just confuse the hell out of me like which way the current is flowing! Tongue
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 05:34:44 PM »

Ok everything looked fine up until a point where the indicator relay connected to this relay:


It was searing hot and I mean it really, really hurt when I touched it; it was that hot. I have no idea how it hasn't melted but the top fastener seems to of deformed. Could this mean too many amps being fed? And if so why?  Undecided This just gets worse and worse!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 05:49:54 PM by piacevole1300 » Logged
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