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Author Topic: Smell of fuel in oil and engine cut out  (Read 7904 times)
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piacevole1300
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« on: June 14, 2011, 07:30:20 PM »

Hi there and welcome to the fun that is my car.  Roll Eyes

The car in question is a 1980 Lancia Beta 1300 with 36,000 miles on the clock and was left standing for some years before.

I have just replaced the ignition coil, engine oil and filters and everything was going silky smooth I gave the car a drive till it was warm when I got home I left it until cold now when I tried starting it, it is VERY rough, not firing on all cylinders, and quite hard to start also sounds like there is sucking sound and then as soon as you let go of the accelerator it sputters and quits out, I tried it once more; same problem. Then out of intrigue I checked the oil which was abnormally warm and very thin I then smelt it and quite a smell of fuel. The smell of fuel in oil could be that unburnt fuel from the cylinder that wasn't firing going down into the sump. Not sure, my head isn't in gear.  Undecided

How come in the space of hours there is a sucking sound (crack in vacuum pipes?) and the car is not firing on all cylinders as it sounds like a Canal boat then the fresh oil smelling like petrol. It's all making my head hurt!  Sad

Need to change that oil and filter again  Sad
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gillybeta
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 08:10:46 PM »

hi there
you could have a hole in the choke diaphragm of the carb - that can allow fuel down to the sump.

jon
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1979 beta coupe 2000fl
1970 fulvia coupe 1.3s rallye
  
 
   jonathan Gillingham, Yeovil, somerset.
piacevole1300
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 08:27:29 PM »

hi there
you could have a hole in the choke diaphragm of the carb - that can allow fuel down to the sump.

jon
That's a good possibility so just take the Thermostat housing off and am I looking for a hole in the diaphragm that goes onto that rod I can't remember the name of? And would that solve one problem or all the problems? Undecided
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 09:37:16 PM »

Ok I removed the Thermostat to remove the Choke Diaphragm and it looks perfect no holes or tares still stuck :/

Here is a photo of the choke Diaphragm:
 
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe 1983 2000ie Coupe


« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 09:51:14 PM »

Definately sounds like a carburration problem. My bet is that a load of crap had settled at the bottom of the float chamber and was then dragged into your jets when stirred up after years of inactivity. You could try firing some carb cleaner and/or Redex through the carb with the engine running. If that doesn't work you may need to partially strip and clean the carb. The choke diaphragm looks ok in your picture.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 10:03:53 PM »

Definately sounds like a carburration problem. My bet is that a load of crap had settled at the bottom of the float chamber and was then dragged into your jets when stirred up after years of inactivity. You could try firing some carb cleaner and/or Redex through the carb with the engine running. If that doesn't work you may need to partially strip and clean the carb. The choke diaphragm looks ok in your picture.
Hmm yeah got some carb spray somewhere!
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 10:05:58 PM by piacevole1300 » Logged
thecolonel
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« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2011, 11:14:16 PM »

DO NOT run the engine until you have found the reason for the fuel leaking in to the sump,
fuel in the oil can ruin the big ends and cause other damage.
The leak is probably the accelerator pump diaphram, looking at it will not reveal perforations.
you can get new ones from Eurocarb about 15.00 if that is the problem,
it could also be the float not closing the needle valve fully.

I had similar problem and I ended up changing the oil & filter twice before I found the fault.


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piacevole1300
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« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2011, 11:36:32 PM »

DO NOT run the engine until you have found the reason for the fuel leaking in to the sump,
fuel in the oil can ruin the big ends and cause other damage.
The leak is probably the accelerator pump diaphram, looking at it will not reveal perforations.
you can get new ones from Eurocarb about 15.00 if that is the problem,
it could also be the float not closing the needle valve fully.

I had similar problem and I ended up changing the oil & filter twice before I found the fault.



Yup fuel will ruin the oils lubrication and wear components at the speed of Knots. Thankfully I noticed this sooner than later. Right well if its 15.00 may as well replace that then, is it a hard job to do? in the case of the float not closing the needle valve shall I just replace the needle or could it just be some dirt clogging it?   
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Neil-yaj396
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1979 1300 Coupe 1983 2000ie Coupe


« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 07:26:34 AM »

The pump is on the back of the carb held in place by 4 brass screws. 2 minute job.
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2011, 11:38:09 AM »

Check your fuel pump too. The diaphragm can fail, which allows fuel to pour into the sump via the opening for the pump lever.

Cheers R
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thecolonel
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« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 11:38:57 AM »

Good point, I always forget the mechanical pump.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2011, 02:20:41 PM »

The pump is on the back of the carb held in place by 4 brass screws. 2 minute job.
Ah that's good news  Smiley Ok so i'll get that sorted  Grin Thanks!
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2011, 02:28:24 PM »

Check your fuel pump too. The diaphragm can fail, which allows fuel to pour into the sump via the opening for the pump lever.

Cheers R
Ok i'll give that a good look over but what am I exactly looking for in the diaphragm just holes and tares creating the lack of pressure? Thanks  Smiley
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2011, 05:06:32 PM »

The fuel pump is a sealed unit I believe. You can test it by operating it by hand, and blowing into the inlet (top) pipe while holding your finger over the outlet to see if it leaks air. If it is faulty/leaking then you may be better off fitting an electric pump as a mechanical replacement might be difficult to come by.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2011, 05:32:36 PM »

The fuel pump is a sealed unit I believe. You can test it by operating it by hand, and blowing into the inlet (top) pipe while holding your finger over the outlet to see if it leaks air. If it is faulty/leaking then you may be better off fitting an electric pump as a mechanical replacement might be difficult to come by.
Ah right ok, i'll do that. http://betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=272 <- Is that not the part  Tongue

Edit: Oh its out of stock :/
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 05:36:33 PM by piacevole1300 » Logged
piacevole1300
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« Reply #15 on: June 15, 2011, 05:49:16 PM »

Ok in wanting to keep my Beta in original condition I can only find a mechanical fuel pump for a 1.6 not a 1.3 do you think that will work for a 1.3?  Undecided

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Mechanical-Fuel-Pump-Lancia-Beta-1-6-03-76-10-84-/220511738530?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item3357861aa2
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #16 on: June 15, 2011, 07:58:43 PM »

I'm almost certain they will be all the same.

I have one on my 1.6 engine. I can measure it up if you like.
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #17 on: June 15, 2011, 08:03:17 PM »

I'm almost certain they will be all the same.

I have one on my 1.6 engine. I can measure it up if you like.
That would be perfect, it'll help out a lot! Thank you  Grin
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rachaeljf
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« Reply #18 on: June 15, 2011, 09:00:39 PM »

Well, remarkably enough mine is a rebuildable type and looks pretty new. The actuating lever measures 59 mm long from the gasket face to toe end. Its "heel" is 41 mm, and toe end is about 34 mm below the fixing hole centreline. The pump body is about 60 mm high from the fixing hole centreline.




Yes that is how the gasket was fitted. It must have leaked a bit! I know it works fine as I drove the car home from Scotland when I bought it, and it was removed and shelved as soon as I got the car into the garage.

If you want to buy it, it'll be 15 including p&p!

Cheers R


* DSC05120.JPG (348.91 KB, 1024x768 - viewed 273 times.)
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piacevole1300
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« Reply #19 on: June 15, 2011, 09:20:45 PM »

Well, remarkably enough mine is a rebuildable type and looks pretty new. The actuating lever measures 59 mm long from the gasket face to toe end. Its "heel" is 41 mm, and toe end is about 34 mm below the fixing hole centreline. The pump body is about 60 mm high from the fixing hole centreline.


Yes that is how the gasket was fitted. It must have leaked a bit! I know it works fine as I drove the car home from Scotland when I bought it, and it was removed and shelved as soon as I got the car into the garage.

If you want to buy it, it'll be 15 including p&p!

Cheers R

Thanks for those measurements! It's getting a bit dark now to take the pump off to measure mine but tomorrow morning I will take it off (looks simple to take off just a bit out of sight under the intake manifold) then get some measurements down and if your selling it at 15 that would be very kind! Thanks!
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