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Author Topic: Swapping a carbed engine for IE engine - differences?  (Read 2166 times)
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mangocrazy
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« on: February 02, 2011, 12:36:09 PM »

Hi,

I've managed to source what I hope is a running 2 litre Beta engine so I can swap it with my current engine and work on that at my leisure. The only minor problemette is that 'my' 1980 Spider engine has carbs, the 'new' engine is an '84 i.e. engine (from a Coupe, not that it matters). I'm not sure if the injection gubbins are being supplied with the engine or not, but it doesn't matter as I'm sticking with carbs anyway and will just remove my carb and manifold and bolt it onto the 'new' lump.

My main concern is more with the ignition side of things. My Spider has Bosch electronic ignition - will this work without alteration on the later engines? I seem to recall that the distributor is different on the i.e. engines - is this going to pose a problem with incompatible connectors or anything like that.

Basically - what are the pitfalls of doing this, and what extra bits am I liable to need?

Thanks in advance,

Graham
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 07:08:59 PM »

Graham

You can use your current ignition set up by removing the block plug. But you need to think what to do with the exhaust cam which drives a dummy distributor on the IE i.e. no advance mechanism either mechanical or electronic. You can change the whole exhaust side cam box for a carb one and re-shim or leave the dummy distributor as a plug on the end of the cam box. Or you can use a VX distributor with its associated coil and amplifier pack as it fits in exactly the same way on the end of the exhaust cam. The Advance curve does not present any real issues and you even get a vacuum advance to sense part throttle load. I have some VX ignition components if that route appeals.

Eric
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2011, 04:14:32 PM »

I think I really need to get a good comparative look at both IE and carb engines; unfortunately my carb engine is nearly 1000 miles away. I'm after the simplest approach that works without compromising anything, to be honest. Will there be any IE, VX and carbed (non-Monte) Betas at the Monte gathering in Sandbach? If so it might be best to have a peer under people's bonnets so I can get a feel for what needs doing.

I'm intending to pick the IE Beta engine/gearbox up on Sunday, so I'll at least have a better idea of the distributor layout on that motor before long. Nothing's ever simple, is it? I can see the time between now and when we next visit the car (Easter) slipping away quite quickly...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
thecolonel
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 11:30:41 PM »

I have an injection loom c/w ecu etc, if you need it.

Geoff
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2011, 11:12:33 AM »

Many thanks for the various options you've presented, chaps. I'll need to have a bit of a think about which is the most sensible way forward. The main thing that is currently bothering me is the condition of the engine 'as bought'. I'm just wondering how well it's going to work (if at all). But I guess that's the problem with any engine bought detached from the car.

Unbeknown to me it has stood outside (albeit covered) for the last 12 months or so, as rust on the various pulleys testify. On the plus side it has most of the engine ancillaries still connected, as well as most of the injection gubbins (but not the loom or ecu). When I have a minute I'll take some photos of it and put them up for people's consideration. I'm just wondering how well it's going to work (if at all).
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
WestonE
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« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2011, 10:17:43 PM »

There are stages to this answer:
1. does it turn over manually with the plugs out by hand?
2. Does the oil filter look like it has been changed in the last couple of years i.e. not rusty or faded?
3. Is the oil like black tar or with sludge in the cam boxes?
4. are all 4 spark plugs light brown in colour not black oily or white glazed?
5. is the tensioner rusty where the belt runs?
6. Is the belt soggy with oil or perished when you twist it?
7. is there signs that it had antifreeze in use not plain water?
8. Are the cams and Aux DS lined up on their marks at TDC?
9 Is there an oil tide mark at the back of the block near number 4 exhaust (first place head gasket fail shows)

If the plugs are OK the oil is present and in sensible order spin it with an impact wrench plugs out throttle wide open or better rig a starter in place with the gearbox and spin it. If you can try a capillary oil guage and see if the pressure comes up quickly. You might even be able to do a compression test of sorts. The dangers are rings seized in bores, cams worn on nose to a point, head gasket blown (plug colour/ no antifreeze), bent valves (it will spin just as easily plugs in or out as there is no compression or the cams are well off their marks sometimes clicking where they catch).
If you dare remove the sump and check the bearing shells particulary the ones near the seals (oil leaks create pressure loss) and the big ends.
Also check numnber 4 sparkplug hole has a thread 

Eric
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mangocrazy
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« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 04:08:01 PM »

Thanks again, Eric. Hoepfully I'll get time this weekend to start the investigation. At present the engine is being ferried about in the back of my VW T4 van everywhere we go. At least it's out of the elements now, I suppose. I'll update this thread as I make progress...
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1980 Lancia Beta Spider 2000 (S2FL)
2002 VW Transporter T4
2017 KTM Duke 690R
2008 Aprilia SL1000 Falco
1992 Ducati 888 SP3
1988 Honda VFR750F
1980 Yamaha RD350LC
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