Lancia Beta Forum

She's been sat under covers on my driveways for 4 whole years and moved 3 times on the back of a transporter.  Now she has a garage all I need to do is fix her. I see much welding in my future!

I had to tidy the garage before I could fit her in there. With that done, the only way to push her into the garage was to lean gently on her with my other car!  The only way she'll be getting back out of there is under her own steam (and after I've freed the rear calipers).

I couldn't get pictures to work, but there are a couple on flickr here:
http://flic.kr/p/8MCFmu (http://flic.kr/p/8MCFmu)

I guess I'll be reading the Haynes avidly from now on. The first job is to pull the fuel tank (there seems to be a small leak :o ) After that I'll either be practising my welding or stripping the interior etc...

Cheers
Duncan

Looks to be about as roomy as my garage ! Good luck with it  - I know exactly how you feel as mine is very nearly back on the road itself after two years !

Re dropping the tank  - it's held on by four captive studs. The two nearest the front of the car are the ones you really don't want becoming un-captive as AFAIK there's no access to them. The two at the rear you can get to from (intentional) holes in the boot floor.

Whereabouts are you based ?

I'm Oxford based. I've not been active online or going to any meets because until I got the garage there was nothing happening, and I also have a 1 year old daughter!
This year I'll be able to work on the car, and also come to some meets (maybe in the Spyder, tho I expect it to take 2 years).
Cheers
Duncan

Well at least you'll have someone that will actually fit in the back seats !

My daughter (3) shows remarkable taste in that the Spider is the only car she likes to play in. Mind she has slowed the project a little.

Stuart

That is good taste. :)
Have you added seatbelts in the back? How does that work? Thinking about that sort of stuff is getting ahead of myself, but you gotta think about these things. 
Cheers Duncan

Your spider should have mounting points for static three point belts. The points are on the rear wheelarch (that's what the removable panles in the rear trims are for) , under the parcel shelf and in the centre bottom of the rear bulkhead. 

What I havent worked out jet is how to fit inertia reel ones - I suspect this might be tricky.

Stuart

don't rely on the  Haynes too much, like all haynes manuals it is only an adequate approximation, there have been a few proper Beta manuals on ebay lately that went quite cheaply.Well keeping a look out and investing in as even though they only cover first series cars they are very detailed and most things are applicable to later series. A proper Beta technical data book is a must too

I'll keep my eyes open on ebay then.

Slight change of plan on what to do first - I don't even have enough space to lie down behind the car, so I'll free the rear brakes up before I do anything else. Note at this stage they don't have to work properly, just not bind!
Jacking up 1 corner will be an interesting experiment in hovw knackered the underneath really is!

After that I can get on with the fuel tank, welding etc and create some space when necessary by pushing the nose out of the garage a couple of feet!

Cheers
Duncan

I tried to undo the wheel nuts before work today, and I broke the socket part of the wheel wrench! :o

So no update so far, but I now have a serious breaker bar and a quality 1/2 inch socket, and I also applied some penetrating fluid to the back wheel nuts.

Cheers
Duncan

You can always stick a bit of scaffold pole over the end of the breaker bar if that doesn't work.

Time to invest in some copperslip
 ;D ;D

This morning I loosened the wheel nuts (the breaker bar was great), jacked the back up, stuck the stands under the sills and left it for tomorrow.
At lunchtime I got a phone call saying the house smelt of petrol! :o

The rubber hose between the fuel tand and the filler pipe has a huge split in it. So I put the car back on the ground and sucked the petrol out of the tank with a pump I bought for exactly that purpose.

I guess my first actual task will be pulling the fuel tank as I originally thought.  ::)
I'll do that on the weekend, the coppaslip will have to wait until next week.

I have noticed some alarming holes in the floor while looking at the fuel tank - I'll post some pictures when I get a chance to take them!

Cheers
Duncan

Boot floor holes are standard issue.

Not too serious so long as the arches and rear chassis rails are OK.

Stuart

I think the main big hole I can see from the back is in the floor under the back seats.  The arches seem ok, and I think the turrets (front and back) have been repaired properly previously. There is some real rust under the fuel fiiller flap and also on the roll over hoop, and the floor and sills look like they need some attention, so I will definitely need to do some welding.

Gotta sort out the fuel tank and the the back brakes before I even start stripping the interior/practising welding tho.

Cheers
Duncan

Hi Duncan

I can fully sympathise with you as I have just been through a similar process, main difference being that I farmed out the repair work to some local guys. If it helps I have some pics of the repair work undertaken on the LMC forum here

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3359.0 (http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3359.0)

Also there is a useful writeup by hongkongphooey on this site here

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=572.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=572.0)

If you need any specific help, feelfree to get in touch

Peter
07977 532320

Hi Peter

That is an awesome thread. You and hongkongphoey are inspirational.  :)

I'm planning on doing the work myself for cost reasons, though I hope it will be enjoyable and educational as well. I went on a course with contour autocraft a year or 2 ago, so I have an idea of what amazing things you can do with a hammer and a sheet of steel, though it will take a huge amount of practise before I can get anywhere near creating the sort of repair panels shown in your thread.I just hope I can make the time to do it.

Thanks for your offer of help. I imagine I will be asking for help on here over the next couple of years! I'm just trying to imagine what it will be like to finally drive it.  :) I need to come to some meetings next year to see some of these cars in the metal.

Cheers
Duncan

It may be something you've thought of, or done before, but I'd start collecting margarine tubs,
you'll probably need quite a few.  I mark them up for each area of the car front/rear/left/right.
It's surprising how many small pieces can get mislaid when you're taking things apart.

Geoff

I have a fair amount of penny shop tupperware and quite a few tins and jars. I even started writing some software to connect the objects, the pictures, the disassembly process, and the locations (I got bored so it's not exactly useful, and it's total overkill, so I doubt I'll finish it)!

It would probably be a good idea to put some new shelves up to hold parts, but there's not much usable wall space.

I sorted out the fuel pipe problem temporarily this morning.  :)

I atached before and after pictures - before is after I poked it with a screwdriver (I didn't lengthen it tho, it really was this long).  I'll pull the fuel tank this weekend, though I'm not too sure of the best way to store it.

The forum seems to be flipping my before picture on its side - any ideas on how to fix this?

Welcome to the forum Duncan  :)
Looks like a nice project, i'll look forward to keeping tracks on your progress.
There's a wealth of knowledge on here, if you have a question someone normally has the answer.

There's good news and bad. 
The good is that the hole I thought was in the floor was actually in the exhaust mid-box.  So I can just bin it and but a new one. :)
The bad is that I tried to jack up the rear right wheel at the sill, and there was a cracking noise and a crack appeared (pic below).  ::) So I put it back down as I didn't want to get under it with it supported by dodgy metal.
I'm wondering if ramps are the best way of getting under it at the mo, or whether the answer is to forget about getting underneath for a while and see if I can strip it and sort the sills etc out first.

To get the tank out without lifting the car I need the backbox off (it's knackered and I have a new one so it's something I needed to do anyway). I had to cut the bolt that mounts the backbox as it was turning within the exhaust and I couldn't get at it. But I couldn't really get at the join with the centre section, so I applied penetrating fluid and I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Your best bet is jacking the rear up via the rear anti-roll bar, all the weight is transfered via the suspension and not the fragile sills.

That sounds like it might work for the brakes (as might the rear jacking point). I doubt I can get a stand under there though, so it  won't be useful for spending time under the car.

I reckon I can get the backbox off without jacking, so hopefully I can do the petrol tank too, and then I don't have any obstacles to stripping the interior and practising my welding...  ;)

I might get some wheel skates before I start on the sills proper - that way I can move it around the garage to get access to both sides.

Cheers
Duncan

No work done due to weather, but I did get some jacking wheel skates and just tried them out. They lift the wheels by 1 to 2 inches, which will hopefully be enough...

Hi Duncan

They look mighty handy, can I ask where you bought them and what cost?

Thanks

Peter

They came from ebay @ 90 quid for a pair. Search for 'wheel skates' or 'wheel dolly'.
If your car is solid enough to jack up you can get solid ones (jack the corner up, stick it under the wheel, lower it) for about 50 for 4. They raise it a little, keep the weight on the wheels/suspension, and should allow easy movement around in the garage, so I figured they were worth a punt. :)

Cheers
Duncan

No progress on the Beta to report (except for removing the back seats and putting them in the loft).  >:(
I've been busy with house DIY and with my new daily - a Dedra Turbo.  :)
I've tidied the garage a little, and it seems to be getting warmer again, so hopefully I can get on with the Beta again soon...
Cheers
Duncan

Hi Duncan

Glad you gave us an update (even with no progress) as has reminded me I have not done so for ooh so long. Yes I too hope the weather will improve, this damp weather is as bad as the really cold and it is difficult to get up enthusiasm to stand in a cold garage for hours....

Peter

I bought some new tools yesterday, so I had to have a go with them this morning.  ;)
I used my breaker bar and a 1/2" socket to try to undo the mounting bracket at the join of the back and mid exhaust sections. The nuts seemed to turn a little, and then the U shape bolt sheared off completely!  :) So tomorrow I can try to get the backbox off (with a hammer), and then it will be the fuel tank.

Not sure what to do with it then - what's the best way to clean up (inside and out) and safely store a fuel tank dry?

Good luck with the backbox - my bet is on an angle grider or hacksaw comming out to play !

On the tank provided it's not shot to bits you can either use something like the POR 15 tank sealer ( available from Frost http://www.frost.co.uk/result_search.asp (http://www.frost.co.uk/result_search.asp) ) or have it chemically cleaned and plated by someone like Surface Processing.

I can't get under it enough to use a grinder. A hacksaw or a Dremel with a cutting disk are probably the favorites but a hammer and some brute force will be the first go.  ;)
I also realised that the floor under the crossmember is rotten.  :( I guess I'll have to take the cross member off, weld new metal in and then put the cross member back on. I think Hongkongphoey had to do something similar to his Spyder. He's a bit more skilled with the welder than I am ATM tho.

At least the good news is that with the crossmember off the exhaust is 100x easier to get off.

The problem with that is the order! I want to get the fuel tank off before I start welding practise. I'm not going to cut the floor out until I am happy with my welding. And I need to get the exhaust off so I can get at the fuel tank!
I decided I needed a new tool to cut the exhaust off, so I bought this :):
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5016/5559356956_e755b88ca4.jpg)
It's awsome!
Sadly, the suspension is in the way so access isn't really possible without lifting the car up further! :( Will have to think some more about how to get at it...
In the meantime, the garage is getting a lot tidier! :)

Perhaps it's different on yours but the tank drops off mine with the exhaust in place.

Worth a look

Stuart

It will come off with the exhaust there, but I can't jack it up 'cos the sills are dodgy. As a result, I can't get at the bolts on the exhaust side without removing the exhaust.
The back (and middle) sections are rusted to buggery, so I can chop it wherever - I'll give up trying to cut it at the join and pick somewhere I can reach!

The bonus is that having tidied the garage, I have space to store the seats etc. and I can find all my tools easily! :)

I crawled under it yesterday and discovered that the most awkward bolt (the one behind the silencer) is missing anyway! So hopefully I can shift the tank without doing anything else to the exhaust.:)  I cleared out the boot (to see the tank attachment), and discovered a huge fuel breather line. Eh?
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5574160631_5543bdd6a6.jpg)

Someone has obviously done some significant welding on the turrets.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5298/5574747330_654b5f472f.jpg)

Shame they didn't quite finish it (see the hole on the outer edge).
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5264/5574749572_03b32ef59e.jpg)

So hopefully next time I get in the garage I can pull the tank. I assume I shuld undo the attachment where it shows in the boot floor before I drop the tank? And how heavy is it (wouldn't want to litereally drop it)?

Cheers
Duncan

PS It's obviously been painted since it was last on the road. Where is the hole for the radio ariel? (I had to punch the holes in the paint for the front indicator repeaters as well!)

better than my VX coupé its turrets are like a patchwork quilt!! when you have the suspension off it will be wise to check out the turret condition and particularly the double skinned area at the bottom of the inner wheel arch

The tank is surprisingly quite lumpy even when empty, so i've always put a small plank of wood underneath and slowly lowered it down on a hydraulic jack; from there it can quite easily be pulled from the rear of the car.

The good news is that I successfully undid the bolts for the tanks sender/fuel line thing at the top of the tank, and that it came off with a bit of persuasion.
The bad news is that I couldn't get the tank off in the time I had, and then the sender thing wouldn't go back over its bolts!

The first of the tank bolts I tried to undo sheared off.  The second one went round and round without coming undone! I didn't have time to see what calamity would happen if I tried the 3rd bolt!  ;) So I guess I need to see what will happen with that one and get it out, support the tank and cut off the 2nd one.

In my recent attempts to work on this car I have tried to undo 7 nuts underneath the car and 3 inside it.  The ones inside all came off - the ones outside have either sheared or seized and turned so I needed to cut them off!  I hope this record doesn't continue or the rear suspension will be a complete nightmare!

I also discovered some rust in the rear panel under the bumper.  So I need to take the bumper off and repair/replace that panel too at some point.  I sometimes wonder whether I should just park this one outside and start with some clean fresh steel and make a new shell!  It feels a bit like I'll end up doing that anyway!

Duncan,

Re: Rusty nuts & bolts on your rear suspension/hubs.

First thing I do is wire brush the worst of the surface rust off the exposed threads.  Then I spray motorcycle chain grease (coz its sticky) over the threads.  That will at least make things easier when the nut starts to turn.

Do the bottom two 17mm bolts that hold the strut to the hub first, remove the 4 x 13mm top mount nuts till last.

Rear suspension on a Beta, if rusty, is going to be a pig, theres no two ways about this. The two 17mm bolts that hold the bottom of the leg to to hub are seriously hard work unless you have a compressor and an air gun.  You may get the nut off easily but this is just lulling you into a false sense of triumph.  The bolts themselves rust and hence become roughened on the shaft that is hidden from view at the rear of the hub, this rustiness fouls them from sliding back through the holes in the hub body - get a drift and a big hammer and don't be surprised if the bolt suffers severe damage.

I put grease on it all and the air gun spins the bolt, while I use an old screwdriver as a kind of crude lathe on the shaft of the bolt to remove surface rust - more grease and then a friend to drift the bolt out while spinning with the air gun.  I did this very recently and it still took me a fair amount of time to get the rear struts off!

You will also find that the design of the strut body has a lip that fouls a socket going on so your going to need a good ring spanner.

I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom - but if things are rusty down there then be prepared for a couple of hours fight.  

I will dig out some spare bolts just in case you decide to chop the heads off and drift out the remnants. At least you'll know that there are spare ones available if need be.  I'll PM you with how many I find in my boxes of bits.

Stick with it - we've all been there and lived to tell the tale  ;D

Thanks for the encouragement and tips Matt.  :)
I don't have a compressor or air tools but I've been considering getting a decent electric drill/driver for a while, so maybe that will suffice (my tools needed list just keeps growing!). I've got a fair way to go before that though - the plan is to weld up the floor and sills first (so I need an auto mask, a regulator, and some gas - see what I meant about tools? ;) ). 

I'm assuming there is some way of replacing the bolts that hold the fuel tank on? The heads seem to be hidden under the floor?

Cheers
Duncan

you can buy a pretty good compressor and airtools from aldi or netto at rock bottom prices Aldi have just ran this offer you might be lucky and find one left somewhere really worth the investment good enough for occasional use. As regards rusty nuts and bolts i can assure you that Beta ones at 25 years plus old are a lot better than MG TF ones at 7 years old another case of quality Italian  and crap British engineering

The two rearmost studs can be replaces with bolts as you can get to their heads through apertures in the boot floor. I've got a feeling the front ones are a bit less accessible.

Re the rear suspension I've got to agree with Matt it can be a sod.

If you get to the point where you can get the back of the car up in the air it can be easier to drop disconnect the crossmember, anti roll bar and strut tops and drop the whole lot out in one go. The extra space makes a difference and if your car is typical you'll be needing to replace one or more of the rear links anyway.

Those bolts are a nightmare. I cut one side off the nut with a hacksaw hoping that the nut would crack into 2 pieces. That didn't work, so I tried to cut a slot into the nut and bolt (with m Dremel 'cos I couldn't get the hacksaw in there) and then snap it off hitting it with a hammer. That didn't work either, so either I'm going to have to chop all the way through the nut and bolt or remove the other side of the nut. Neither is going to be fun. This bolt/nut has more strength than anything else on the car!

I hope I can cut the washers away from the the other remaining nut, otherwise I'll be repeating this hassle again.  ::)

I basically just dremelled my wy through the nut and the bolt! Lots of sparksl, and it was right next to the fuel tank outlet! But it's done now and I didn't set the house on fire.  :)
One bolt left - fingers crossed this one is easier...

If the tank needs re-sealing, anyone know where I can get this done? I'm not going to get a chance to spend a whole day playing with acid in the garden, so I might as well get someone competent to do it!! I'm in Oxford, if location makes any difference.

Cheers
Duncan

I can't get at the washer, so I'm gonna have to cut throught this bolt as well (with the dremel again).

On refurbing the tank:
I have contacted Surface Processing but not heard back yet, and I got a quote of 220 to 280 UKP plus VAT plus delivery from hartlepool radiators using the RENU process. That's a bit pricey for me (though I appreciate it involes cutting the tank in half and re-welding it!).
If I can't get it done any cheaper, has anyone got any experience of a radiator shop boiling a tank as decribed here?
http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelTankRestoration.html (http://www.ratwell.com/technical/FuelTankRestoration.html)

Cheers
Duncan

How many damn fuel lines are there attached to the tank? You may have gathered from this I've got the tank off! I had to chop the last remaining bolt and hammer the rear jacking point out of the way!

Where do these lines go? I mangled one of them a little so it will need replacing when I put it all back together!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5067/5634782647_d914391a07.jpg)

The good news is the tank looks fairly good (though a bit scabby around the edges).
Cheers
Duncan

4 lines to the tank IIRC

Those two head up to the filler neck behind the boot trim and are part of the vent arrangement.

They aren't mentioned in the Haynes. Glad they are normal.  :)

Success!!!  ;D
I have finally pulled the tank.  ;D Here's some pictures of it (the outside could do with a clean). What do you think of the inside? Does it need sealing, and what does that little pipe in there do? Would it block up with the sealer? I don't think 300 quid plus VAT for the 'renu' process is worth the cash cos it doesn't seem too bad to me...

Top
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5110/5635238849_4704328931.jpg)

Bottom
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5109/5635242357_15843c4ca6.jpg)

Inside
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5188/5635279229_eed6671135.jpg)

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5101/5635281373_97b361ab61.jpg)

Surface Processing will chemically clean it for 75 + VAT but then I would have to coat it myself. I'll probably do that, but for now I'll get on with the rest of the car!
I've just ordered a load of welding gear, so I need to get my bench cleared up and strip the interior out. :)
If I get fed up, I'll probably chop the backbox off as well!  :)

Progress (and unpleasant discoveries).

I got my auto darkening welding helmet - now all I need is some scrap steel to practise my welding on.  :)

I pulled the hood off. Aside from not really understanding how it attaches at the back, and the minor rustiness, this is ok (and will go in the loft out of the way).

I pulled the seats out. The drivers side one folds ok, but the bolster is knackered. The passenger side is complete, but the folding mechanism doesn't work. One of the pivots is siezed, and I guess it must have been like it for some time as the bar that links the 2 sides is missing, and the seized side was also missing a bolt. This allowed it to fold in quite an unpleasant lopsided way. I replaced the bolt with a random one, and undid the bolt where it has siezed for the below photo.
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5182/5668786181_8dd3cff510.jpg)


I removed the seatbelt and the back side panel from the drivers side. Easy to do, but a large amount of rust behind it, and if you look through the holes at the box section, that has rusted through. It explains why jacking that corner wasn't a good idea!
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5062/5669430590_d35aaa1694.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5189/5669431700_977eef721b.jpg)


Also, 2 of the fuel lines run around the rear turret - what are they doing in the passenger compartment?
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5230/5668861459_87cc7af2d9.jpg)


Having done that I could pull part of the carpet up. Lots of rust - the floor has been badly welded in the past, and the whole lot could do with replacing, both in front of and behind the main crossmember. The bulkhead looked ok though...

(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5144/5668787409_bc73e3a19a.jpg)
(http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5103/5669387468_bcbfbe07ff.jpg)

I think I'm gonna get a lot of welding practise!
Is it worth trying to put the ridges into the replacement floor panels I make, or can I get away with just a flat 1.6mm panel?

A flat 1.6 panel might well work but it could drum a fair bit. Putting the ridges back in is a better bet. A hardwood block chiseled out to make a former would help you a lot.

Did surface processing quote you to coat the tank? If so how much ?

Stuart

Surface processing said they wouldn't coat it, hence the quote is just chemical stripping.

I need to get some metal bashing gear before I can do the floor, so I'll give the hardwood former a go. I doubt I'll put all of the grooves in - maybe half would be OK!  Welding practise and stripping the floor (got some clean/strip disks now) before I get that far though.

I stripped the passenger side and all the carpets this morning. So it's all bare in there now. The passenger side box section is better than the drivers side, but the rest is basically the same. The clean and strip disk will give the definitive answer, but I thin in needs new floorpans on both sides...

Disappointing,but as I expected really...

Any suggestions for what sort of hardwood to use as a former?
Cheers
Duncan

Drop TonyLanciaBeta a line as he had cut out a floorpan from a car he dismantled.

Thanks Matt - PM sent... I thought you were on holiday?  :)

My bossing mallet arrived today, and I ordered some panel beating hammers and a welding blanket on eBay, so the tooling up process has started.  ;) :)  In some ways I'm quite looking forward to it - there's something very satisfying about turning a flat sheet of steel into a useful panel. :)
Cheers
Duncan

I am on holiday.... Sat by the pool, beer in hand in 33 degree Florida sunshine :)

Tapatalk smartphone app and free wifi helps!

Going to watch shuttle launch on Tuesday...

Damn I can't even afford Cleethorpes

Sitting by the pool sounds nice. Weather has been decent enough here recently though.  :)  If I could afford to take the family to Florida, I could pay for my Spider to be restored by someone who knows what they are doing!  :)

No progress with the car today, but the carpets and interior bits are now in the loft, and the garage is a bit tidier.  Can't get steel until Wednesday, and won't have much chance to work it for a little while, so progress updates will slow down again now...
I don't want to clean/strip the floor until I'm happy with my welding (or bored of practising!). Otherwise it will just get rusty again (and it might be hard to make patterns if I end up making too many/big holes)...

Cheers
Duncan

Still no progress.   :(
Slightly disillusioned, just not had any time or money to spend on it. :(
The only time I've managed to get into the garage this summer I dissolved an alloy seatpost out of a steel bicycle frame.  :o Don't get any caustic soda near your alloy parts is all I can say! The bike is almost finished though, so that will be 1 project down (and about 5 more to go! :( )
Cheers
Duncan

Whatever you do don't give up - through long experience there's always something that stands in the way, be it work, a young family or a wife with a list of DIY jobs as long as a your arm (and sometimes not having the first idea about what I'm doing). But what keeps me going is the thought that 'one day....' It may take longer than originally thought but it will happen and when it does - I'm in for a lot of grins!

I agree.... hang in there!! there are peaks and troughs when it comes to time, money and enthusiasm for a project.  I think we all suffer from low points when theres no time or money and that dips the enthusiasm, but it'll all come good.  It's amazing what dealing with a few little jobs can do for the enthusiasm and that in turn can help when it comes to the dealing with bigger jobs.

I cleared the junk off the bonnet last night (looking for an elusive bike component) and just that has made me happier about it!
I've got a few weeks of working on a website for my wife's charity, and then my mornings before work will be mine once more (and I will have accumulated significant brownie points - redemable for time in the garage).  I've a few projects I can do without spending money, but I will need steel and welding gas soon. Hopefully by the time I get there I'll actually have some! :)

Thanks for the support. This car is going to be a long haul project - must remember that it will be worth it in the end...
Cheers
Duncan

Classic cars are always worse than you hope when you start

but

Classic cars are never as bad as you think they are when you're half way through

I got a MIG welder today. :)  Now all I need is some gas and some practise time. :)
I also got a swager so I can make floor panels a lot easier. :)  It deals ok with 1mm steel - is this sufficient for floorpans, or do I need to push it and see if it will work with 1.2mm? I suspect it will struggle above 1mm.
Cheers
Duncan

My MIG welding is getting there with 1.6mm sheet. I'm gonna get some 1.2mm sheet next week and we'll see how I get on with that, but progress is being made though it is slow. Not tried the swager yet, getting some welding practise in first.
I doubt it will be on the road this year. :(

I got some 1.2mm sheet, and started practising welding it. I also ran it through the swager - it works surprisingly well, but it doesn't leave as deep a dent as the originals (original = 5mm or so deep, mine are about 2 or 3mm).  Still, better than nothing. I'll be getting a big sheet of 1.2mm zintec soon and then I can start actually making the new floor panels (pattern first of course). :)
Just for illustration, here's the drivers side floor after I stripped the sound deadening/underseal type stuff off:
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7039/6800531570_400b2d5d0c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/6800531570/)
Beta floor (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/6800531570/#) by duncancmartin (http://www.flickr.com/people/90461577@N00/), on Flickr
Note - I haven't stripped the underneath of it, and I haven't run a stripping disk over the top either - I think I'll just cut the lot out rather than messing around trying to patch up rusty  already patched steel...

What's the score with ordering outer sills?  Once I've done the floor, I think I'm going to need some new ones! The ones on there now are probably not too bad, but some of the welding is really dodgy, and I think the box section has rotted away inside, so they definitely need to come off...

Cheers
Duncan

Duncan

I think you will do better cutting a good floor from another shell. There are enough cars out there being broken for spares with a better floor than that. I think Tony might have those sections of his scrapped HPE still around.

Eric

 

Eric
If I'm being honest, some of those scrapped cars might be better than mine! But I've had it for 6 years without ever getting it onto the road, and I want to learn how to make pannels and weld them in (to a decent standard), so I figured that I might as well get on with it on this car. So long as the work I do will be safe, it's OK if it takes a little longer or is not 100% original.
Cheers
Duncan
PS HPE panels will probably fit for the front floor wells, but the Spider is shorter on the back ones, so if they need work I'll probably have to make them anyway...

the important thing is saving the car that's my excuse for wasting time and money on my volumex which was as rotten as a pear definitely should have been crushed tbh

Alan

Duncan

I respect what you are doing I just thought the front floor pan is a tricky thing to make from raw material and common to Coupe/Spyder and HPE. I suspect there will be no shortage of places to practice your new skills. Either way I wish you well and look forward to hearing the car is back on the road.

Eric

Thanks Eric, I appreciate your honesty. There may come a point, when I have tried several times, that I give up on trying to fabricate the panel and use a scrapped floor as you suggest. But for now, I'll attempt to develop enough skill to construct the correct shape myself. :) We'll see.  And I shall keep this thread updated as I go. :)

It's kinda daft when I think about it - I've owned this car longer than I've owned any other, and yet I've never driven it! iIn fact, the only Beta I've ever driven was a 1.3 coupe that I test drove but lost out on 6 or 7 years ago!

Still, I have a welder, steel, and, can manufacture some time now and again, so I'll get there eventually.  And when it is on the road, it will be all the sweeter knowing that I did my bit to resurrect it. :)

Cheers
Duncan

Hi Duncan, just read through this post and it seems we are in the same boat. I fell in love with my coupe and it's probably as rusty as your Spider. My passenger floor looked as bad as your drivers side, and my sills are gone too, as are the boot lid, sunroof and C pillars.
Theres also minor rust around the windscreens, and scuttle.
They are such beautiful cars and certainly worth saving, so I know exactly where your coming from.
I actually bought a floor section from a wrecked HPE for $80 and welded that in and made up the rest of it as I went along, too to sharpen my welding skills. I also used 1.2mm galvanized steel sheets which I picked up from a salvage yard very cheaply.
Don't give up on  it, it will be worth it!
Scott.

I have actually started cutting and bending metal!  Woo!
The start of a floor pan (in 1.2 mm zintec) - it was going to be the drivers side but I messed up and put the swages in the wrong way so it'll have to be the passenger side! Still,  it's not too bad as starts go...
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7442/8723367417_0d5cfcc6bd.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/8723367417/)
floor panel with swages (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/8723367417/) by duncancmartin (http://www.flickr.com/people/90461577@N00/), on Flickr

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7377/8723368831_f707db9722.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/8723368831/)
floor swages (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/8723368831/) by duncancmartin (http://www.flickr.com/people/90461577@N00/), on Flickr


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Hi Duncan,
those floor panel look ok. I have to look at making some too, and hope they'll look as good. My spider is probably just as bad as yours, but I have just started, so got a heck of a long way to go.
Good Luck
 Les

Hi Les
I think your spider is better than mine.  You certainly have more space to work on it as well!
I've almost finished the floor panels now - they need the corners of the swages hammering out and the ends of the panels bending up. The swages aren't as deep as the originals, but hopefully they will do the job.
(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7366/8728568142_abc7502ea1.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/8728568142/)
2 floor panels (http://www.flickr.com/photos/90461577@N00/8728568142/) by duncancmartin (http://www.flickr.com/people/90461577@N00/), on Flickr

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Have you welded with the zintec before? Just wondered what it's like because welding in galvanised steel can give off a nasty gas.

Not yet,  though I have some off cuts I will practise on.  The idea behind the zintec is that the coating is so thin that is not like welding galvanised sheet.  If it is,  I'll have to grind the edges where I'm welding,  which defeats the point...

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My sills arrived on Friday (thanks Mark). I really need to get on with things now. First job is welding a brace across the doors.  Then I need to tow it out of the garage to remove the doors before I can do any significant work on sills or floor. Still,  now I have the metal I need,  I have no excuse! ;)

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I have something of a dilemma with this car. I don't really have the time (in the next year or 2) to fix it. I was thinking about just getting it sorted and accepting that it would cost more than it's worth, but then my wife casually mentioned that she hates being in a car with the roof off. Which makes a spyder, with attendant leak possibilities and extra noise and weight kinda pointless.
I'm assuming it's basically worthless (saw a similar car go for £276 on eBay recently). If it's not to be saved, what's the best outcome? Does the club have storage for parts, or any way of doing something useful with it? Obviously I'd prefer it to be restored,  but finding someone willing to do that seems unlikely.
Cheers
Duncan

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Hang onto it and dabble when you can, don't let go! My vx has been off road for about 12 years might never be finished but I can't ever give up all hope. I think your wife might change her mind if she is ever driven down a country lane in a spider on a beautiful sunny summers day......

I'd agree with that. Enthusiasm waxes and wanes but provided you don't desperatley need the space the car will still be there whan you have more time.

Also with the Spider you have the advantage of dropping the back and leaving the roof panel on which should help keep your wife's hair in place.

Problem is,  if the Spyder is in the garage,  I can't do anything in there or put anything else in there. And it doesn't drive,  so I can't  move it out the way either!
I will have a go at convincing my wife that we should get it sorted so it can be used.
I guess my ideal scenario is that someone with a coupe wants a Spyder project and would do a part ex. Can't imagine that will happen,  but thought it worth mentioning! ;-)

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my wife has decided that my VX is a pile of worthless junk and I should have bought a 124 spider......but I'll try to keep calm and carry on

My wife doesn't care about cars. At least your wife is vaguely interested in them!

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Sadly she is also quite good at crashing them........ Unlike your wife she hates having a roof! My fault few years ago bought an mg tf and since then only a convertible will do she has an mx5 now, if your spider was far enough on she would probably be very happy with a swap but my vx is probably too far ahead of yours for it to be a practical swap as pretty much all welding is done plus I have all the parts to finish it too.

Rosso -  you should just finish it and enjoy driving it.
Opc of this parish has asked for first refusal - assuming we can sort out a deal then he will restore it. Probably for the best - the car will get the attention it deserves, and not rot away in my garage getting in the way and depressing me with how much needs doing.
I hope I'll have a few quid later this year, so I'll be keeping an eye out for a good coupe to fill the gap.  ;-)

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