Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:29:03 PM



Title: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:29:03 PM
Well as requested,here's my build thread copy/paste from Retro Rides so excuse me if some of it doesn't make sense.

Let me introduce you to my new project....a '77 Beta Spyder in Rover nightfire red  :-/. It was originally a 1600,but somewhere in it's life it has been fitted with a 2 litre. I've no idea how it drives as the gearbox is fubared,but it did come with a good gearbox. It's been off the road since 2006 (presumably when the gearbox gave up) and it pretty tatty aound the edges.
I went to see it 135 miles away in Southport last weekend,thought 'what the hell',handed over the cash and arranged to have it delivered the following monday,for the sum of 160.

And here she is....She isn't really that low at the back,the boot was full of spares

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2630/4172930798_1d12c783e9_o.jpg)

Twin 40 dcnfs too  8-)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2691/4178861811_35da264c19_o.jpg)


Looking a little lost in little Japan

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2755/4172931110_d82a039d86_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2520/4172177239_dd3c261c06_o.jpg)

So today I kicked the Celica out of the garage into the cold and started stripping it down to see if the rumours of terrible rust on 70's Lancias is true...

Fire it all out now,think about where to put it later!!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2794/4179622824_d4ec835bda_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2489/4179623414_21d55b2200_o.jpg)

See,totally untrue,no rust in sight!!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2616/4178861473_b5790efd2e_o.jpg)

Erm well,perhaps a bit  ::)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2769/4179623130_75741a6af7_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2782/4179624388_fcd21a1901_o.jpg)

Disease ridden soggy sound deadening.. :-X

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2590/4179622448_c5c8ea4e3d_o.jpg)

It's had a mega amount of patching done on it already too....the rear turrets especially.

One good thing,it looks like it has uprated springs and dampers on it as well as braided brake lines...Why does any car need this much suspension travel the wrong way though??!!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2531/4178862495_a5e86d069a_o.jpg)

Tomorrow,i break out the grinder and knotted wheel!


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:30:13 PM
You know when you start a project and you have all good intentions of making a really professional job of it,doing everything perfectly,but when you get down to it,you realise your skill/patience/resolve/tools and equipment says otherwise? Well I had that moment today!! ;D

After seeing the amount of patches already slapped over the rot rather than cutting the rot out i've realised that i'm never going to make it perfect with my skills and budget,so i'm going to get it solid rather than pretty and roll.

Anyway,after a couple of hours with the knot wheel,i was left with a headache,tingly fingers,a very dusty garage and this

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4182127852_ce293a81cb_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2639/4182128288_25507d93e8_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2502/4181365855_90979d82a2_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4006/4182129182_a9e80f8d1a_o.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2714/4181366759_b15a69d4b4_o.jpg)

Some holes,dodgy seat and seatbelt mounts  :o and pinholes everywhere
So off came the knot and on went the cutting disc......Ooops.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2566/4182130018_7f097e9851_o.jpg)

This is about the point when I start thinking....How the hell am I going to fix this!! :D

Unlike some great threads on here,there probably won't be many detailed pics of the repairs and I tend to get carried away with working and forget the camera....I just hope I can find some good metal to weld to! :D

Why do we do this again?


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:32:51 PM
That's a patch and a half!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2677/4185995046_d3b0c7b59b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/16545001@N03/4185995046/sizes/o/in/set-72157622844850919/)

Some more patches...if you like that kind of thing

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4187866385_981f807fbe.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2724/4187866761_4230b19be9.jpg)

It's never as hard as you think it's going to be once you start putting metal back in.

Some more general pictures of cutting out rust and welding in patches!

The front seat mount was well gone and the floor under it

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4190617731_8bc5ff9dc7.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2765/4190618075_a227922ef6.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2587/4191379964_c04231154a.jpg)

The rear mount was gone too....Also for some reason,the last person to repair it didn't use the original seatbelt mount,but welded a nut to the sill covering and used that instead! God knows why,as the original mount was solid as a rock and is welded to the actual inner sill structure.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2771/4193726728_b4a565ca80.jpg)

Patched. I'll put the seat mounts back in when I decide what seats i'm using as the originals are a bit torn and tatty.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2641/4196113964_c42348922a.jpg)

A couple of small holes on the bulkhead

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2635/4192967397_f8cf3d6938.jpg)

Patched

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4195357641_96fae510bd.jpg)

Next up on this side is a couple of repairs to the top of the sill covering and then most of the offside rear floor needs replacing as there are loads of pin hole in it.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:34:11 PM
Some more chopping,some more grinding and yep you've guessed it...some more patches.

The last major patch on the drivers side

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2611/4207417678_8b12a6e329.jpg)

On to the passenger side.....it's already had more patches than me old Nan's quilt!

Chop chop....i can see the floor again

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4034/4206659167_032dd455c0.jpg)

First patch in

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2754/4207418460_5c0f0d57ac.jpg)

Building it back bit by bit

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2636/4206659947_816dccda60.jpg)

And that's the passenger front done.....not as neat as the drivers side,but hey,it was never going to win any awards anyway!

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4206658365_6c0b9a3450.jpg)

On to the nearside rear tomorrow if I don't get hoodwinked into any criggy duties



Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:34:39 PM
And today's efforts...More of the same unfortunately.

The rear of the front seat mount and the floor underneath it needed replacing

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2501/4209709532_2c275a672e.jpg)

Chop chop....patch ready for welding in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4209709882_17292d149a.jpg)

And in...bit more to do with this yet though.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2471/4209723656_8fb79a200c.jpg)

While I was down the back end I found a previous halfarsed repair where the rear suspension bolts to the floor....i hope someone didn't pay for this repair! I had to chop out a section of the cross member to get to it,,,,,the cross member needed some repair to the lower part of it anyway.

I haven't cut that hole out....that's what was above the suspension mount  ::)

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4013/4209710262_ef8f99000b.jpg)

Chop it out...i did it in two sections

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2516/4209710574_3dea3944fd.jpg)

Weld a bit in....chop out the other side

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2707/4208948457_a6aeb34b3f.jpg)

Weld in the other side

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2799/4209711166_aa36c45c95.jpg)

And cross member welded back in.....i've skipped a few stages here because a) it gets a bit boring to look at and b) I never think to stop and take pics!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2214/4209711574_ac9060440c.jpg)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2546/4209711922_9d3f4033fb.jpg)

It's a good job I enjoy this! ;D


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:37:07 PM
Managed to get out for a bit this morning before family duties took over.....

Finished patching the rear cross-member and the sill covering and cut out the nastiness on the rear floor

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2735/4210282371_f0850f8764.jpg)

I guess this'll be it till after criggy.....i'm sad,i'd rather be welding than getting intoxicated!!

Well,i was going to try to take off as little as possible underseal on this car,as last time on the celica,i ended up walking little bits of it in all over the house and getting into some serious trouble!! Unfortunately,it's hiding all sorts of rubbish,so it needs doing  :(

I found some more rust on the floor from the underneath that needs doing...These are taken from under the car

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2681/4225703455_d92d7f6c83.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2595/4225703803_3a065b4a9d.jpg)

This is underneath the centre cross member which now needs removing so I can cut the rot out....spot weld drill ordered. You can see the patched up hole in the nearside rear foot well too

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2779/4226473822_f73a60f8df.jpg)

While i'm waiting for the spot weld drill,i thought i'd rip the rest of the headlining out and see whats what. Plenty of surface rust,but nothing too serious.
The captive nuts for the roof clips need attention..

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2539/4225705993_22d6213ff8.jpg)

As does the tops of the screen frame on both sides

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2764/4225705211_46924113fc.jpg)

I also took the wings off to see what's underneath and was pleased to find someone had got there before me and done all the hard work!  :)

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2692/4225704755_dd89ef37d5.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2646/4225705611_f4658a17fe.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:38:14 PM
A little bit more done whilst waiting for my spot weld drill  ::)

I took the windscreen out and did a little work on the frame as well as the door posts.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2799/4260418472_cc7883b3fb.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4260419754_a1f2b4758f.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4259663517_ba72a0d13a.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2721/4259664743_4374af5a84.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2749/4259663937_85dc172464.jpg)

And then my drill showed up....Yay!

So on to work with the cross member.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4016/4260420582_ff232b4365.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2800/4259665927_7b1aefb572.jpg)

Cut out and welded up.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2776/4259666301_fc2f27af35.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2690/4259665533_f75b07434f.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4259666743_6ca5bfc38e.jpg)

I've put the cross member back in,but not finished it yet because I still need to chop it about for new seat mountings.

On to the sills,and it was a bit of a mess behind the back of the nearside sill.It doesn't look so bad because I started chopping out before I took the pics

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4005/4260423260_40e18a7997.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/4259668347_9ab859f951.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4260417640_fe606c2578.jpg)

I'll start building it back up tomorrow.....it's fairly complex for me so i'm looking forward to the challenge. Pretty it won't be,solid it will! :D


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:39:48 PM
Anyway,on to todays progress,which was a bit frustrating as I didn't seem to be able to lay down a good weld all day! I cleaned the steel as best as possible,cleaned the earth clamp,changed the tip,messed with the settings....i hope the welder isn't packing up!

Pics.....Bottom couple of bits in,with a load of waxoil as the next piece starts to box things in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4262642573_6fb4b6dd22.jpg)

Central piece in....covered this in weld through primer. Maybe this isn't helping the welding??

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4262643121_d9fa1181c5.jpg)

From the back

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4263395496_2a5402e651.jpg)

Sill piece back on....looks a real mess in the pic,but it's not ground down properly,and a trim piece goes over this,so a skim of gobbo and all will be well!

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2686/4263395976_bfae02fc43.jpg)

with a small repair to the back lower section

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2769/4262644863_9010898f5f.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4262645419_00f91394c8.jpg)

And the back end boxed in and an extra patch

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2686/4263397568_dcb057940b.jpg)

On to the back of the chassis rail to repair this...

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4263398104_c6c29d1ca6.jpg)

Usual thing....chop out,weld in.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2764/4262647029_4909970616.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4262647557_da22d3fa8a.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:40:41 PM
No weldy weldy tonight,just choppy choppy.....On the front half of the sill.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4267116642_1b565e7fb5.jpg)

Chopped out and cleaned

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2757/4266371249_8d022b63ee.jpg)

Top left of the cut.....so that's where all the last bloke's welding wire got to!!

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4267117942_d531d85b40.jpg)

Finish cleaning and start welding tomorrow. Gonna have to make a new sill piece though as the piece I chopped out is a bit crappy. I'm going to try and utilise a pair of sills I have for a Toyota Corona,unfortunately not the model Corona I own though!


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 14, 2010, 10:41:54 PM
First two pieces in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4269929074_8d6d0958f5.jpg)

Followed by a load of waxoyl,then the central support pieces

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2705/4269186575_b56ca4727e.jpg)

followed by a load more waxoyl,ready for the outer covering

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4269928708_311865bd21.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: HFStuart on January 15, 2010, 06:43:56 PM
It's great to see but I can't believe how fast you're progressing with this. TBH it irritates the hell out of me as my garage it too small to work on the car so I had to spend all of Christmass with the inlaws....

I think you might be best to weld a rib or two to that large floor panel  - it's bound to resonate at some speed and it'll save you pulling out the interior again when it does !



Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 16, 2010, 08:28:35 PM
I really enjoy it Stuart (when it's going well) so i just crack on with it. I reckon that panel won't be that bad with some dynamat on it.....it's 1.6mm so quite thick.

Anyway....more progress. Little bit warmer out there too :)

Got the Corona sill on the other day...it's not been cleaned up yet,but no doubt it'll need some filler.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2762/4278900037_b34ca9667f.jpg)

On to the other side.The sill wan't too bad,but i decided to just take it off going on what state the passenger side was in. Seems i was right.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2718/4276821293_3cd433eda6.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4276821581_8ec317a5f6.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2640/4276821895_3df18c7c99.jpg)

A nice little pile of rust cleaned out from the chassis rail!

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4277568890_9b113a2015.jpg)

Start chopping back to good metal bit by bit

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4036/4277569222_78b4dc4fcf.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2787/4277569544_415fb51bec.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4049/4278898215_cf3674563d.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4048/4278898569_0cee38cbab.jpg)

Then start added back in bit my bit

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4033/4278899051_aa55baa53e.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2776/4278899359_ab6dd34ae3.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4064/4278899717_ab249ef9b1.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4278900431_739926acee.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2665/4279645282_337a822157.jpg)

More tomorrow...


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 17, 2010, 09:09:54 PM
I spent my time filling in the holes today.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4002/4281946035_a522d715d9.jpg)

Another angle

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2706/4282690914_49f240de8a.jpg)

This piece was left long for a reason.....to be revealed later

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2750/4281947061_38b68c34b9.jpg)

And the rear chassis section boxed in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4030/4281947561_55e433381f.jpg)

And the centre sill support section in the middle of being welding in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4281948021_40028b60d6.jpg)

Some good progress me thinks. :D


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: HFStuart on January 17, 2010, 09:31:10 PM
Indeed - once it's done what will you do to paint it ?

Susnshine today at last today ! So I was able to start striping my scrapper to give me enough space to work on the other one.

New storage shelves assembled, exhaust off, tank out, interior stripped. Which in istelf is not too bad between wife and daughter duties.

Taking up the underfelt confirmed it's the right thing to do - what a mess it makes yours look rock solid !


Stuart


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 17, 2010, 10:19:49 PM
I'll spray it in my garage....i'm not one for spending 2k on a paint job! :D

The underfelt is disgusting stuff isn't it.....just soaks up water and holds it like a sponge.

Did you have any trouble taking your tank out?


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: HFStuart on January 18, 2010, 10:57:31 AM
Yep  - it was specially designed by Lancia to rot out the floorpans.

Thankfully the tank is fabricated allumium one that's only been in for a couple of years so removing it wasn't a problem. When I took the original off I was very careful but I still sheared one of the studs. Ideally I'd have used heat to loosen them but I was a bit timid doing that with the tank so close.

Stuart


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 18, 2010, 05:30:37 PM
I'll have to find the studs under 6" of underseal first!


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 20, 2010, 10:51:06 PM
I've done a few bits more....plenty of grinding and a few little patches,not worth any pics though,but the main thing was getting the Corona sill panel on and the rear section completed.

Pics...

It's going to need some filler,but then so is the rest of the car  :P

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4027/4291591712_6b8e4233d7.jpg)

And the reason I left that piece sticking out earlier on

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4068/4290853043_65ddf76c25_o.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4021/4290853445_75c40333a5.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4290853853_64fd6a6bc7.jpg)

Should be just about right for a side exit exhaust.....i've always wanted one ;D


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lanciamad on January 20, 2010, 11:00:06 PM
Ahh so that's what you were upto :D, guess your be fitting a custom system then ??? Would have been easy to fit a side exit exhuast on the other side using the original system but bet it would be loud.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: rossocorsa on January 20, 2010, 11:58:04 PM
is a side exit exhaust road legal? or more to the point are you sure you will not gas yourself especially with the hood down and pedal to the metal? lancia dedras have a habit of nearly gassing the occupants and they have a tin roof and a conventional exhaust so a beta spider with a side exhaust and no catalytic converter......


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 21, 2010, 12:02:55 AM
The standard system was toast,but even if it wasn't,it comes too far back before it turns the width of the car for where i want it to exit,so custom system it is. Cheaper than a standard one too,with less back pressure. ;D

And yes,they're perfectly legal....Caterhams,Dodge Viper,Trucks,Vans and Coaches have them. :)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lanciamad on January 21, 2010, 10:22:26 AM
The fact that they are allowed does make me laugh, I was questioned instantly about my original tailpipe due to me removing the bumpers as it could be a potential trip hazzard (Why would you need to walk that close to the car), but it's fine and legal to have a boiling hot silencer running along the side of a caterham for example.
Anyway, should be pretty cool, cant say i've seen one on a Beta yet, I know someone that is planning on doing the same :-X (Not me) Be interesting to see how it effects your idle and acceleration at low revs.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on January 21, 2010, 10:53:50 AM
It's not going to be a massive system,probably just 2" and silenced with a 24" cherry bomb.,similar to my Corona (but that's full length) That still behaves nicely on low revs,but whether the twin carbs on the Spyder will make a difference we'll see.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Pete on January 21, 2010, 07:11:06 PM
With regard to the legality of an exhaust system I understand it as:

it must not leak at any point within the entire length of the system;

the exit point for the gases must be beyond the periphery of the vehicle body and;

it must not exceed current noise regulations.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lbcoupe76 on February 06, 2010, 05:08:39 AM
You certainly are a talented man, great job so far can't wait to see more progress it's very inspirational. I wish i knew how to weld well enough to do that, i'm great on the spanners but suck on the welder.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 06, 2010, 01:45:41 PM
You certainly are a talented man, great job so far can't wait to see more progress it's very inspirational. I wish i knew how to weld well enough to do that, i great on the spanners but suck on the welder.

Thanks fella.....just buy a welder and practise.That's all i did. :)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lanciamad on February 08, 2010, 11:52:48 PM
Loving the latest progress you've made on the car (on retro-rides), I also tried the four adjustable arms idea, with some turnbuckles, everything was perfect apart from the size of tubing available unfortunately, even the biggest available to me wasn't strong enough in the end. The way you've done it should be fine, I just don't trust my welding to do it like that :D So i've got another pair of adjustable arms all with poly bushes which should do the job nicely, hopefully.
I've been having an attempt at welding the floor of mine, have a look and see what you think, it's on the blog. By the look of it your spyder had 4 fixed arms fitted? :-\ It shouldn't have, nor the HPE strut body :D Not sure all the work with the water connection was necesary, could you have not just cut the strut part above the platform including the threaded part, remove the mm's difference and re-weld ???
Very good work anyway, you certainly keep busy, starting to put me to shame! ;)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: rossocorsa on February 09, 2010, 09:04:46 AM
By the look of it your spyder had 4 fixed arms fitted? :-\ It shouldn't have,
actually lancia changed the arm layout to fixed pressed arms with eccentric fixing bolts for adjustment so those arms will be right, they later seem to have changed back to using two pressed and two adjustable arms on later cars I'll put my anorak on now!! ;D


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lanciamad on February 09, 2010, 09:57:28 AM
Ahh I see,  :-X


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 09, 2010, 08:40:27 PM
Judging by how weak the pressed arms are,i can't imagine having to have anything that beefy to do the job. I didn't realise some already had adjustable arms.

Not sure all the work with the water connection was necesary, could you have not just cut the strut part above the platform including the threaded part, remove the mm's difference and re-weld ???

The unit i'm canabalising didn't have a threaded part....it was completely sealed.

Thanks for your comments anyway.....i do like to crack on!  ;D


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: rossocorsa on February 09, 2010, 11:32:26 PM
Judging by how weak the pressed arms are,i can't imagine having to have anything that beefy to do the job. I didn't realise some already had adjustable arms.

Not sure all the work with the water connection was necesary, could you have not just cut the strut part above the platform including the threaded part, remove the mm's difference and re-weld ???

The unit i'm canabalising didn't have a threaded part....it was completely sealed.

Thanks for your comments anyway.....i do like to crack on!  ;D

as regards arms it's all bit bit odd and difficult to comprehend lancias thinking (as with most things italian) AFAIK very early cars had fabricated arms one fixed and one adjustable on each side of the car they later changed to a system with all pressed arms that superficially appear fixed and non adjustable but in fact they were connected by a fancy bolt system that could be rotated to adjust the  toe in/out I guess this is what your car had as it looks like a series 2 pre facelift (???) at some time later (no idea when) they seem to have adopted a hybrid version with fixed pressed arms and one adjustable per side just the usual Italian madness you'll get used to it never assume something will be the same as another car of the apparently same parentage!!

thinking about it I suspect that the pressed arm option with eccentric bolts probably gives the best unsprung weight although it maybe looks the least well engineered


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 10, 2010, 06:10:33 PM
Hmmm....i'll have to have a closer look at the bolt system. I didn't notice anything like that when i tore it apart. There were some teardrop shaped washers on the arb body mounts though which didn't seem to do anything  :-\

And yes,they are very lightweight,and probably only weak when they're forced to go in a direction they were not designed to go in,like mine have been!


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: rossocorsa on February 10, 2010, 07:16:27 PM
this should explain it
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/volumex/DSCF0362.jpg?t=1265825714)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 10, 2010, 08:27:51 PM
Oh i see......someone has totally replaced those bolts on mine.

Thanks for posting that.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Martiniracing on February 12, 2010, 07:54:27 PM
Good job!
I'm curious to see your side exit exhaust!
A+


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 13, 2010, 07:17:29 PM
I'm curious to see your side exit exhaust!

Thanks...so am i! :D

Updates...

It's been a while since the last update but i've got plenty of faffing done along with some bigger stuff.

I decided on the seats,a standard set of early tan seats,so I was able to weld the seat mounts back in,then paint up everywhere i'd welded so far...it looks something like this,quite black.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4312333706_f59437224c.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4032/4311598199_f5f95e6d7f.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2736/4312334398_38003e8e33.jpg)

Then it was time to remove alll the rear suspension and fuel tank to overhaul it and check and sort the rest of the rust.

Here's some random dismantled/painted etc suspension pics

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4024/4311598867_f86fa95e45.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4041/4312335062_d6cd012e81.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2712/4311599565_b6843e3d45.jpg)

Odly....the two grey rear struts you can see in this pic are different sizes....I think one is off an HPE and one off a Coupe.So i'm going to have to source a matching pair. Or get medieval on it and improvise

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4022/4312335824_4d7201328c.jpg)

Then after what seems like forever with a chisel chipping off the 6" of underseal,i found the rust I thought was lurking and chopped it out,ready for cleaning up and welding some fresh in.

View from the rear wheel well.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4038/4311600249_eee2874934.jpg)

From underneath

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4056/4312336402_ee0e1b0710.jpg)

And from inside the boot showing the panel that the tank filler comes through....still needs hacking.Most of the rust you see is surface rust.....just needs cleaning

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4312336714_2290a9de6c.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 13, 2010, 07:18:15 PM
Bit more done...

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4314699960_8d2f00e54d.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4018/4314699670_9f47248a2b.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 13, 2010, 07:19:15 PM
Finished all the welding from the front bulkhead back now

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4335388234_2e15d48afb.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2743/4335388664_a5a055fa93.jpg)

Al done with a covering of rust paint ready for an underside soaking in waxoil

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4335391200_2e55cc9dc8.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2800/4334649051_dc622c2887.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4003/4335391982_03daf53ede.jpg)

I also made a steel box for the battery sunk in the boot because I like the extra space in the engine bay.

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2763/4334648247_162ece7c00.jpg)

I decided to make a strut brace for the rear out of box tube

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4029/4337886727_ffca69a31d.jpg)

To be attatched to the 3 brackeds I welded in. One on each strut turret and one on top of the chassis rail. You can just about see them on this pic

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4337887219_1d844c517c.jpg)

Painted and hung up to dry

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4337888133_903a80c567.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 13, 2010, 07:19:58 PM
I've starting chopping up the longer sealed rear strut so I can fit a cartridge like the shorter one.....a pair of kybs are on order,to in the mean time I took a random water connection elbow a had knocking about

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4050/4338626090_fea7fa91a8.jpg)

Cut it up for the threaded sections

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4338626668_0c95eda869.jpg)

One end now screws into the other

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4338627152_cceebaf083.jpg)

Ready to weld on to the old sealed strut,now with the damper internals removed....i just need the new inserts to get here to determine the length

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4042/4337886163_80734d4f31.jpg)

Remember these rather weedy 4 c section lower suspension arms?

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2712/4311599565_b6843e3d45.jpg)

As you can see in the pic,one was bent and all the bushes were knackered. So I took all these little bits I acquired

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4023/4334646573_0ffcac9203.jpg)

And welded them together to get 4 adjustable arms for adjustable camber and toe.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4335389532_2f22d83524.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2739/4335389948_d9635d81d1.jpg)

Dismantled the rear hubs/brakes for cleaning overhaul and painting too

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4019/4335390386_68c49cb53c.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4010/4337887723_23b6943671.jpg)

And de-rusted,painted and stone chipped the fuel tank too

(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2777/4338627786_aba9911005.jpg)

The rear suspension and brakes are nearly all cleaned and painted now,with new bushes,ready for re-fitting after the waxoil fest and tank re-fitting. Just waiting for new pads and the shock inserts.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 13, 2010, 07:20:33 PM
Boring pic of the fuel tank back in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4353128939_5312ded0c8.jpg)

New shock arrived from Camskill

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4020/4353129301_c1c165b0e2.jpg)

Which means I could get on with modding the old sealed type strut.

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4353877506_bab481b0b9.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4353129641_a5e797a323.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2762/4353130255_34ec849686.jpg)

Rear suspension going back in

(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4039/4353878752_bb60f39edb.jpg)
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2795/4353879408_fe78a6ab88.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4031/4353131233_de439f67be.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4025/4353130913_00236425f3.jpg)
(http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4054/4353131533_c89cb10e9f.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lbcoupe76 on February 14, 2010, 06:13:09 AM
That looks awsome, top job


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on February 14, 2010, 01:38:17 PM
Thanks for saying so. :)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: lanciamad on February 15, 2010, 10:25:34 AM
Wish I could be bothered to clean and paint everything as I went along, looking good :)
Will it be making Beta meet/Retro rides? I no you can only drive one car at one time.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Lancia Beta 2000 on March 31, 2010, 06:33:39 PM
What a wonderful job!!  ;)



Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: falcoron on May 10, 2010, 02:30:41 PM
Doing a great job there, brings me back a few years when i did this for a living. hard dirty work that never seems to end. You are doing the right thing cleaning and painting as you go. Bits get lost easily if you dont.
One point i would like to make to everyone who is doing this, ( i found out the hard way many moons ago)
When chopping and welding so much of the floor pans and panels it is wise to make a temp strut for the door gap one you take the doors off the body (especially a targa roofed car) as it can  can move quite a bit, you wont know until you refit the doors and you will be too late then. Im sure you will be fine as you were doing small areas at a time. But do check and strut up if you are doing a restoration.
Another tip if you dont mind. There is a wheel that 3m make that is fantastic for cleaning up rust, underseal, seam sealer etc. Its a clean and stip wheel and its brilliant. Great for the awkward bits and wont carch and split like a sanding disc can, flexible to get right into the grooves and ridges etc.
This is the wheel, you need the middle arbour as well
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/096.jpg)
this is what it does very well
fits on a drill,
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/097.jpg)
this is the area i will tackle for this demo. Not rotting i know but just to show how this works.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/094.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/095.jpg)
This is what it does for the area and for getting old cracked sealer out.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/102.jpg)
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/104.jpg)
once really clean ( and i do mean clean to keep crap away) you need to protect with a chemical zinc coating. Do this bofore the damp gets at it and compromises the area.This stuff is very good and is only for a light protection coat. and always BEFORE you seam seal so you have prtection under the sealer. A thing most manufacturers never did with disasterous results.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/105.jpg)
It will look like this once coated with 2 light coats.
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/106.jpg)
Use an acrylic or polyeurathane sealer like this or any good make. These are over paintable and always remain flexable and have excellent adhesion properties
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/108.jpg)
You are now ready to prime with a good 2 pack acrylic filler primer. You can then finish paint or waxoyl.

Hope this helps and remember the cleaner you get the steel the longer the crap stays away.
Ron
(http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc77/falcoron/bongo/109.jpg)


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: HFStuart on May 10, 2010, 09:21:12 PM
Very effective in an angle grinder too. Cruicially they don't produce much heat either so the risk of panel damage is less.

It still took hours to get the inner wings free of rust though - too many nooks and cranies !

Stuart


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: falcoron on May 10, 2010, 09:49:38 PM
So true, its a long process but a sanding disc will put tons of metal dust into the air and it will settle all over the car. This alone can, if not cleaned up properly start the whole oxidisation of the rest of the car. You can also introduce this dust into the paint as you go and that will always find a way through, its like weeds in a garden.
 clean, clean then clean again thats the secret. use the best products you can. I have a good knowledge of corrosion prevention coatings so please use me if you need advice,
ron


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: hongkongphooey on May 13, 2010, 12:14:31 PM
Thanks for the comments and the advice people.

Hopefully i'll be back on this soon....i've moved house and got the workshop sorted.Just need to get a few more curtains put up and my other too oldies mot'd,then it's full steam ahead!


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Paul TC on June 11, 2010, 12:44:30 PM
 :)

Superb job, only just noticed these posts and it's given me a boost to do a bit more to my long term Spider project.

Keep up the good work and posts, love it.

Cheers


Paul


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Duncan23 on April 01, 2011, 10:09:46 PM
I discovered some very sad news on retro rides - HKP was killed in a crash in his Celica.  :'(
http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=98906 (http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=98906)

You can see the finished car on page 7 here:
http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=71914&page=7 (http://retrorides.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=readersrides&action=display&thread=71914&page=7)
Never met him, but what talent he had...  :'(


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: HFStuart on April 02, 2011, 09:37:54 AM
Oh crap. I did meet him to exchage some trim parts.

Really nice guy and a suitably eccentric enthusiast.


Title: Re: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Duncan23 on March 07, 2012, 09:04:47 PM
His cars are featured in Tetro Cars magazine this month. The article is more about the man than the cars, but it is good, and thrre are some pictures of the finished Spider...

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Pee Vee on March 15, 2012, 01:12:40 AM
I never met Simon and only exchanged the briefest of e-mails with him but I feel a kinship to him working on basically the same project; trying to bring a very rusty Spyder back from oblivion. Looking at Simon's pictures I didn't feel so alone.

It's like I am walking in his footsteps especially on the floors. See below:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.115132145180952.15361.100000525018141&type=3&l=ed4893071f (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.115132145180952.15361.100000525018141&type=3&l=ed4893071f)
Hope mine turns out as nice as his did.


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: peteracs on March 15, 2012, 12:23:37 PM
Hi Paul

I thought mine had a lot of rust until I saw your photos, can honestly say mine was pretty good in comparison. You are a brave man to have all that work done. Did you do the work yourself?

Peter


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Pee Vee on March 15, 2012, 05:54:24 PM
Thanks, Peter. Are there any pictures of your car on the www?

Not sure that I'm brave. Foolhardy, perhaps. No one in their right mind would have gone to the extent I did as these cars are very inexpensive here in the US. You could probably buy the best one in the country for under 5000 pounds. That is why I felt a comfort in seeing Simon's pictures. We obviously both had the same impared judgement. 

I have done almost all of the work on my own. I did send the quarter panels, doors and fendders to someone to be media blasted and then primed. I'm sure I'll have someone else paint it too. And, since I don't know how to sew, there is a professional trimmer in my future.


Title: Re: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: Duncan23 on March 15, 2012, 09:54:31 PM
Wow, those are good pics of a rusty Spider. I'm another member of that club - I've not yet taken a grinder to the floor, but I have taught myself to weld!:)

Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: peteracs on March 16, 2012, 11:55:09 PM
Thanks, Peter. Are there any pictures of your car on the www?

Not sure that I'm brave. Foolhardy, perhaps. No one in their right mind would have gone to the extent I did as these cars are very inexpensive here in the US. You could probably buy the best one in the country for under 5000 pounds. That is why I felt a comfort in seeing Simon's pictures. We obviously both had the same impared judgement. 

I have done almost all of the work on my own. I did send the quarter panels, doors and fendders to someone to be media blasted and then primed. I'm sure I'll have someone else paint it too. And, since I don't know how to sew, there is a professional trimmer in my future.

This is my forum post on the LMC site, not much progress since then sadly, but hope to complete this year.

http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3359.0 (http://www.lancia.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=3359.0)

Peter


Title: Re: Lancia Beta Spyder (77 or 78)
Post by: rossocorsa on March 17, 2012, 09:54:42 AM
very interesting thread the work looks really good I think you are lucky to have found somone that is working to that standard, one observation if you haven't done it I would recommend sourcing a set of wheelarch liners from a later car the ones from the last cars are best these protect all that inner arch area from damage and are the main reason that later cars rarely suffer with rot  around the front strut mounts