Lancia Beta Forum

Well, actually it began quite a while ago.... I won't bore you all with the story but if you want to refresh my story it's here!

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4409.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4409.0)

So, last July we moved house to a place with a double garage which, in theory, was going to allow me to carry on with the build of Stratos 2 but that never happened as the market went crazy in the last year and I decided to pass it on to another builder with the budget to do it justice. It's being collected some time before Easter so I thought it was about time to start the search in earnest. I'd seen a couple of VX Coupes but the state of the tin didn't make me want to dive in. A couple of very expensive ones (on eBay and at a Newcastle auction house) were possibilities but I decided that I probably needed something to keep me a little busier.

So I bought some bits!

So, can anyone identify the bits third, sixth and seventh from the top?

I know the top two are gutter trims and there's door card clips and one sill cover but the other two are a mystery to me. Obviously there's a coupe side window and an early (1600?) grille.

I also got these bits

Which left me with a bit of an issue - the bits needed to attach the front bumper to the back bumper.

So I've just unloaded this onto the driveway

I'm sure some of you will have seen this on eBay recently. Please accept my apologies for my outbidding you. And if you did bid, please keep it to yourself as I ended up paying more than I thought I would(but a little less than I was prepared to pay)! ;D ;D ;D ;D

So, what have I acquired sight unseen (in my defence it was a 500 mile round trip from Formby to Norwich!).

Well, it's a May 1981 2000 Coupe that the registration docs say is white but has a rattle can finish in satin black. It's MOT history on DVLA says it hasn't had it's first MOT yet and the registration document (an old style one) lists a former keeper acquiring the car in December 1992 and the next change in August 2008. So, some long term owners who did nothing with the car than store it. It has some plusses and some minuses.

The minuses:
It's incomplete - I'll come to those bits later.
It has a slight compression issue. It has none. The cylinder head is in the boot. The block is in the engine bay. I have no idea how long they've been apart but the cause of separation is a bent valve. I haven't tried turning the engine yet, the bores look okay, well, at least not rusted up so maybe there is hope for the original drivetrain.
Brakes look beyond saving. Minimum is new discs, overhaul of callipers and blasting/plating/painting of carriers before new pads go anywhere near it.
Power steering. Absent. Actually it has the earlier rack so that's great! I'll get a workout.
Tyres. Well, it has four. And they're a mixture of Continentals and Acceleras. Other than that they're all perished and none will hold air. The rims are 16 inch something or others and look awful (to my eyes) so I'll be going 14inch standard FPS or 15 inch Delta eventually.
It has a sunroof which appears to be flush but I'm not opening until the car is under cover.
Electric windows. Bet they won't work. Ever.
There are puddles in the boot. Sorry - that should have been in the plusses list!
There's filler in the windscreen scuttle panel corners, how much I don't know yet.
It's had the bonnet release cables/mechanisms removed. And bonnet pins fitted so there are now holes in the bonnet that need plating. The pins were in the glovebox.
No fuel filler flap.
Two keys but I can't get the door locks to play nicely...
Speakers cut into the door cards. Hate hate hate.
No history at all. We start from scratch now.
The passenger quarter light is hole free so no mirror on that side. I can't recall seeing one like that before but it's S1 glass so maybe it came like that or earlier glass was fitted after a break in?
There's a Panasonic radio cassette in it. I'll probably find something more suitable looking with a DAB upgrade because:
There a hole in the rear wing for the aerial. Something else to get plated.
Well it has a fuel tank but I have no idea what state it's in. Probably full of rust knowing my luck

Plusses
There are puddles in the boot. Because there are not gaping holes to let it out. There was a couple of bedsheets that were soaking some of it up whist supporting the various dismantled bits stored in there. All removed now to reveal a solid floor and the rear suspension turrets look rock solid. I probably should not have said that just yet.
Front turrets also look solid although there is some evidence of light corrosion and some primer on the nearside inner chassis rail, hopefully that's just preventative!
The underside looks solid too - but I haven't had it up on ramps so that's probably tempted fate once too often.
The interior looks pretty good, the dash has a little delaminatation by the vents and a bubble or two by the binnacle, probably repairable. It smells a little damp but there's no mould. I'll put that down to it being outside for a few weeks and being brought back in torrential rain. The interior will be removed quickly to clean/store/dry so I can assess the state of the floor.

That's about it for now after a quick assessment. Next - the missing bits and a plea?

The missing bits - if anyone has spares they are willing to part with please let me know - beer tokens await!

I've deleted the list that was here originally - I've moved it to the parts wanted section and will amend the list and strike through items when I've found them!

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4847.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=4847.0)

Thanks for checking for me!

Guy

Hello Guy, glad that you finally have your Beta.

I definitely have a sill cover that you can have and I have some other trims, but like you, I'm not sure what they are. Next time I have the car out I'll spread them out and take a photo.

On cars of that period the nearside mirror was an extra at purchase.

Enjoy
Neil

PS: I have side repeaters, but fairly sure they have the black base unfortunately....

Exciting times Guy.

You are welcome to use mine to compare and play spot-the-trim, but not sure it would be the same?

Mark

Thank you Mark and Neil (and Peter by email).

I see a day out doing the rounds of Shifnal, Grantham and Saltaire to see what's available to finish off the jigsaw! Perhaps it might be better to wait for the disassembly to begin and add to the list and find th first Beta Meet of 2023?

When I emptied the boot I found one side repeater. No studs and part of the base broken off which may explain the Fulvia ones fitted to it. That may yield the stainless trim to convert a black based one.

I've just added a couple of things to the parts wanted thread..

Guy

Nice purchase. Good to see another Beta on the road to recovery.

On the subject of a lock set, If you have a door key, you can re-pin all the locks to match. You can do it yourself or get a willing locksmith to help you out. Its not rocket science, just fiddly. And there's a thread on here about it I think.

cheers
Ian

Thanks Ian, it's not something that scares me at all - somebody put it together so I can take it apart (usually!) but the chances of me fixing all but one of them are high. Plus there's a fair bit to do so shortcuts might be welcome!

Parts wanted list updated. Again!

Hello Guy,
The LHD column stalk is available new, but appears to be very slightly different
from the original, as even the LHD cowls don't fit without fettling.
It's worth getting new, as used items always have some wear slop in them.
I got mine from Ricambio but i've seen others selling too.
Expect around £170.

Those numbered trim pieces: I don't think they are Coupe stuff.

Cheers, and good goings with the build
Nigel

Right - the mystery parts are identified after I got them home today after a long round trip from Liveppool to Bristol & back!

Part number 3 is chromed plastic and in the bin now. It's not Beta!
Part number 6 is a carpet edge door trim - I need to have a look at the car and see if they're there or not and, if they're not, which side did I just acquire and add the other to the wanted list.
Part number 7 is a unicorn! Not only is it the rear panel stainless trim that attaches to the two corner pieces that I found in the boot it also has the fixing clips in place! Proper result I think.

Bumpers are okay, I need to have a better look in daylight, the front one has a slight twist at one end that I think I can straighten, all the fixing points are also there and intact! There are two rear ones and one is definitely better, just need to look at the rubber on them and see which is the best.

There's a side window with seal that I don't need but will keep for anyone else who needs one.
There's an early grille (1600) that's been painted red but is warped badly. If anyone want this please shout, I won't throw it away!

Guy

Guy,
In case you've not seen it, there's a photo on my 'HPE recommission' page
of the 2 small brackets I made in order to fit it to the RHD column.

For the cowls, Kevin (betaveloce) may still have a pair.

Nigel

Thanks Nigel, I'll follow up for the cowls and have a look for the thread with the photograph later tonight!

I've had a slightly productive day cleaning out the scuttle panel of various nuts & bolts left there and taking out loose water rails, the expansion tank and pipework, separating the alternator from the block (not removed as I need to document connections - an earth strap I don't recall but shouldn't be surprised about given the rubber mountings).

And when it was blowing a hooly outside I was busy in the garage cleaning and polishing some of the stainless trim I picked up yesterday! One rain gutter, the rear panel trim and one sill plate done and stored safely out of harms way now. One more gutter trim to do tomorrow.

I've checked the interior and the carpet is fixed down with the plastic edging so the stainless one I collected yesterday is surplus to requirements. If anyone can make use of it please shout! i'm not going to throw it out!

Guy

Hi Guy

The carpet edge trim may be of use to me, suggest you bring it when you decide to venture my way unless of course someone else is in dire need, in that case feel free to send it that way.

Peter

It's yours Peter!

Guy

A huge thank you to Tim who supplied a lot of the missing parts today, well worth the drive to the Peak District for a day out with a fellow Lancisti but the pile of parts in the boot of the Alfa, on the back seat and in the footwells was just mega! I'll be unloading it in daylight to avoid damaging anything tomorrow. Wanted list updated again!

Thanks Tim, you're a star!

Guy

So, Monday 16th January 2023, and I've started the teardown. And added some more parts to the wanted list! Hey ho.

It's been on the driveway since I brought it home waiting for space in the garage and it's going to need some seals. It leaks somewhere. Maybe everywhere. Condensation on the inside of the glass was the clue, maybe it got in there on the long drive home from Norwich or maybe it's just the crap weather or I didn't notice it when picking it up..... Anyhooo. It was a swimming pool in there which, oddly, was a little encouraging. Colanders don't hold water....

Got home today about 11ish after a run to the vets with the cat. Repeat trip tomorrow. Don't ask. And it's the first dry day since I got the car. Well, outside the car anyway. So, time to strip out the interior, dug out the toolkit and started around 12. With this:

Of course I was concerned about corroded fixings in a 40 year old Beta but how bad could it be? Only way to find out was to start! So, passenger seat, four allen bolts and the first issue, the seat tilt mechanisms are frozen or loose. The seats slide though so forward enough to get at the rear ones and back to get the front ones out. All tight but free! Repeat for the drivers seat. Happy days. Then the carpet edging, pulled the rubber infill out and 5 Phillips screws per side. Out of the 10 all came out without fuss! Put them back in their holes, infill back in place and onto the shelf. Door bins, 4 screws on the passenger side and 3 on the drivers. One totally AWOL but all just popped out. Then the seatbelts, left and right in the sills and either side of the centre tunnel. Tight to start but all came undone without fuss! Rear seats just lifted out. Side trims, two screws in each armrest, one Phillips in the trim at shoulder height, two in each stainless trim behind the belts and the plastic clips just pop out. I think one broke. Both cards are damp. Bugger. Two bolts on each seatbelt bracket and one each keeping the reels in place. No complaints from them either. That gave me a first look at tinwork on the inside of the rear wings. There's rustproofing fluid sprayed everywhere.
Next it's the centre tunnel. Two screws and two plastic fir tree types fix the middle to the bottom, simple job and out it comes once cables are undone. Two screws at the front on each side of the console and two midway on the floor. Gearlever trim off, gearlever knob off and the first breakage, the rubber is perished and it pretty much disintegrates. I need another or something aftermarket now. Hey ho. Then the centre tunnel comes out and we're making progress. Footwell kick panel under the dash drops out and straight on the shelf! Two screws holding down the bridge over the gear mechanism for the centre tunnel just undo easily and then lever the back of the tunnel over the seatbelt bracket and the centre tunnel is out.
Two nuts to remove the seatbelt bracket from the floor, three nuts from the gear change mechanism and I can slide the carpet towards the back of the car, over the handbrake and gear-lever and it's out too. Now hanging up in the garage drip drying. I'll need to shampoo it properly in the summer but it looks good despite all the ingrained crud with just a minor split in the drivers footwell mat.

And I'm left with this...

Then a little work with a scoop and a sponge and the carpet is coming out and it's moment of truth, what's the floorpan like underneath?

A bit like this actually!

More work with the sponge and rip out the underfelt to get at the floor underneath and see what the metal is like. Well, you're going to have wait for a photo as this muppet forgot to take one as it was getting dark and I needed to tidy up and put a cover over the car. Suffice it to say there are no holes in the floor that I can see that shouldn't be there. There is a fair bit of surface corrosion and one area, about 12 inches by 3 inches that's not pretty but looks strong. I'll find out next time I look at it. Next task is to hoover out the remains of the underfelt that turned to dust when I lifted it out (only the drivers footwell - the others were soaking and fell apart) as well as the loose crap that's lying on the floorpan. I'll treat the surface rust with a converter and red oxide primer as soon as I can.

I'll post a picture of the floorpan once I've hoovered it out if I remember!

So, what's left inside the car now? It's the rear seat backs - I think they undo from inside the boot?
The door cards - they're next once I've identified which way to push the door handle trims off so I don't break the locating lugs!
The trim above the drivers footwell (never seen one of those before - but never gone looking!)
The dashboard which can wait a while as well as the headliner and sunroof. It'll need to be under cover before I can strip out the glass to deal with that.

Next on the list is to fit a set of inflated tyres Tim gave me so I can move it more easily and then get it into the garage to remove the block and gearbox and assess the other mechanical bits!

Loving it so far!

Guy

Hi Guy

Looking good so far, especially if those rear inner wings are in good shape.

Peter

Hi Peter, I think the rear inner wings are solid, both sides, front and back. I need to remove the seat backs to be able to see all around them and maybe the mastic pads on the inside of the boot as well as the floorpan but judging by the state of the inside surfaces of the outer wings visible now the trims are out it's just caked with rustproofing fluid.

The original plan was to dip the shell and I will probably do that but it's going to remove what's saved the car's body until now and may open up seams that are then hard to fully dry out, prime, paint and rustproof again. I'll be needing advice from specialists before I take that step. It may be better just to remove paint in suspect areas and/or check with a magnet. There are issues with the front screen surround and the roof by the sunroof.... I wonder how easy it is to find a pristine roof/scuttle panel from a 1600 and do a sunroof delete?

Obviously I'll be letting experts see the state of the shell before much is done to it. Tim and Jacob are planning a visit once it's safely tucked away in the garage!

Guy

Great work Guy

On the Shell strip / dip both Stuart and I used Envirostrip because there is no acid dip that can be left in seams. You do need to make sure ALL box sections have large enough drain holes. I had a bit of residual carbonized paint in the inner roof box and the seat cross boxes. It was easy to get rid of and not like the Sand Blast experience where sand appears for 10 years after!

Enjoy

Eric

Are they in Tamworth? I'll have a look at their website and have a think! I guess it's an expensive process, there seems to be quite a lot involved?

Guy

Well here's the floorpan without the soundproofing felt.. Some corrosion but no perforations that I've found yet. Some areas to be treated at the weekend with rust converter and primer.

And here's the crossmember under the rear seats - was this the potentially problematic one Peter referred to?

And here are the rear suspension towers, I need to remove the bitumen pads covering them but I see no signs of corrosion or rust staining yet. Hopefully it'll stay that way.
Left tower inside the boot, left tower down into the inside of the wheel arch and right tower inside the boot.
Apologies if anything isn't clear enough - I have tried to brighten the exposures a little!
Guy

Hi Guy

Yes it is underneath this crossmember which can be unpainted and often rots, but your floor looks pretty amazingly good…..

Peter

This is the worst patch I've found so far Peter, it's passenger side footwell next to the inner sill. The white spots aren't perforations but flakes of white paint. It does need urgent treatment and possibly cutting out and plating properly. That's not a huge issue in the scheme of things!

I suspect there is metalwork to be done on the front inner wings on the upper box section, the windscreen surround/scuttle and sunroof. Fortunately there are repair panels available and others aren't complex shapes.

Guy

If you want to be 100% sure you'll need to remove that bitumen type sound deadening and get someone to shine an inspection lamp from underneath while you look for pinholes - but it does look surprisingly good.  How are the U section channels that run along the edges of the floors?

Hi Guy

I assume this car had the front wing liners?

If so then they usually save you a lot of grief compared to the earlier cars where the inner and outer wings rotted out all along the top part of them.

Peter

I plan to have some fun removing the bitumen pads from the floor and suspension towers once it's under cover in the garage. It might spook the neighbours a little though Stuart!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMMddYg1Zxw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMMddYg1Zxw)

And yes Peter, it has the plastic inner arch liners, all look to be intact, hopefully the fixing screws will come out as easily as every single one in the interior did! No chance, this stuff will have been exposed for longer!

I'm hoping it will be good underneath too!

Guy

Hi Guy

Yes they are in Tamworth and a HUGE timesaver for a full restoration including getting those bitumen pads off. Be aware of course it will show the absolute truth about the shell i.e. holes you did not know about, previous dodgy repairs, accident damage hidden behind filler etc. I thought I had given them a fully re-metaled shell but still found pin holes in the floor under the seat support cross member.

Do not send them Petrol tanks to strip because the process melts the solder holding the pipes in place and you get a petrol tank kit back as I did!

As always time vs money and how much do you like stripping paint and sound proofing.

Take lots of pictures now of everything. When it comes to re-doing the sound proofing and wiring you will be glad you did.

Eric 

Guy  - also I haven't forgotten about the spit  / tilter. I just keep running our of hours in the day.

Thanks both!

No rush on the pictures Stuart, the car isn't in the garage yet to be stripped. It still isn't on wheels that hold air yet. But that might change this weekend! Once in the garage I'm hoping teardown will take a few weeks/a month if I can get to it daily for a few hours. It's the bagging, labelling etc that will take the time. A chassis tilter/rotisserie would be nice, I'm not looking forward to trying to remove fuel lines and suspension bits whilst underneath the car.

I'm not looking forward to removal of the front and rear screens although I think it'll need a new front one, I spotted some delamination yesterday. Hey ho.

Guy

Greetings Guy,

It looks like you've found a really good shell, and most of the bits appear sound.
If you have a heat gun, warming the bitumen slightly make removal
relatively easy.

On the windscreen, there's quite a long lead time at Pilkingtons so it's worth
ordering early on. There's an abrasive screen-cutting wire which makes removal easier.

You commented on the power windows early on: The motors will probably be ok, it's
the spiral cables that may be worn at one end, a reversal cures that. Fiddly, but do-able.
The window tracks/felt guides also gum up.

Watching, and you've my renewed enthusiasm for mine which has been waning a bit
recently!

Nigel

Stuart - you mentioned U section channels down the side the car - do you mean the tops of the inner sills where the carpet retainer screws to? If so, one side has some corrosion but nothing holed as far as I can see. Job for the weekend if it's dry is to wipe all the crud away and get a good look at it. It can't be good everywhere!

Nigel - thanks for the tip on removing the drive cable and putting it back in the other way - I'm not sure I would have thought to try that, if they don't run smoothly I can try that after cleaning the channels. At the moment it would be daft to connect a battery, there are loose and unterminated cables everywhere. Wiring used to scare me but having build the Stratos loom from scratch (all the smoke is still in!) I'll check it over one cable at a time, strip off the covering and re-wrap with new terminals throughout. Luckily for me there are wiring diagrams in the Haynes manual... I'll also take your advice on the screen and get an order in when the shell goes for paint.

I hope the posts to come help you get back to your car so another one will make it to the next Beta meet.

Guy

Hi Guy

On the Electric Windows Beta Boyz to the rescue as Mark sells new furry drive wires and the rest of the job is cleaning away and replacing grease that has turned to concrete. If you can't get them then Nigel's solution is a good one provided a previous owner did not get there before you.

Eric

Thanks for the tip Eric, I'll bear that in mind when I get the motors out of the doors and strip them down. New sounds like the way to go whilst this stuff is available but the reverse the cable trick is just brilliant! I wouldn't have thought to try that. I can see me investing in a parts washer at the moment!

Okay, thanks to Tim the car now sits on four inflated FPS standard Lancia wheels. I'm not sure one will stay inflated as I had to put a can of goop into it but they'll do for moving it around. I took the opportunity to look around the inside of the left suspension turret and it looks as good underneath as it did from inside the boot. I forgot to look at the right one. Oops.

The carpet has been slowly drip drying in the garage for a few days now, it's still very slightly damp but has come out way better than I expected it to. Come Summer I'll give it a good hosing down in the back garden and a shampoo and let it dry in the sun. There are a couple od splits in the passenger mat but that's all. What I did notice is that there was still some factory clear plastic on the edges underneath the side fixings so this may well be the first time the carpet has been out of the car in 40 years! The plastic protective film is stapled to the carpet and guess what - the staples rust and I bet they've damaged the paint slightly, maybe enough to let some surface rust start?

Anyway, the car is now mobile again even if I can't move it with the handbrake applied! Rusty discs will grip anything!

Guy

And the V5 arrived today in my name, the car is now SORN'd until I get it MOT'd - a while down the road yet!

Are any of the previous owners of HHV43W on here? Or close relatives?

It may be next week before I get back to her. The Panda is getting a new set of brake discs, pads and refurbished wheels with new tyres at the moment. The poor Alfa will be feeling left out!

Guy

Today was a Fiat Panda morning followed by some stainless steel cleaning/polishing:
The rear panel side trims cleaned up really easily and a set of clips Tim gave me on damaged ones were carefully removed and the fixing bolts replaced with some stainless ones. Now safely stored out of the way with the rest of the rear trim. Only the actual boot edge one to do now.
I turned to the sill trims and noticed I've got an early one (with the Lancia L/Shield) either side of two panels. The later one just has three matching panels. Dilemma - I prefer the early one but the later is correct for my car. I guess I'll have to go with the next one that turns up to make a matching pair. I still need one right end trim for these.
Next up was the rain gutters and that turned up another missing piece - the end trim for the right side one at the back (near the side vents). There are none present at the front ends - should there be any there?

Fairly sure that the sill trim I offered is the later type.

I'll take you up on that kind offer Neil - don't post it though, it'd suffer I'm sure. Next time our paths cross can you bring it with you?

And thanks to Chris Mace (Betabuoy) I now have the missing exhaust manifold and heat shield and have made a donation to the forum as agreed.

More cleaning of removed parts tomorrow I think!

Guy

Will do

The last few days have been spent making sure Stratos2 is packed up and ready to leave and getting the Panda back on it's refurbished wheels - that turned out really well - good enough to spend an afternoon giving it a wash and shammy dry and then doing the Alfa so it didn't look too bad.

The only part I haven't found for Stratos2 yet is the circlip collar for the outer CV joint (the one that keeps the circlip in it's groove when you pop the shaft into the CV joint). There IS another spare driveshaft on a shelf somewhere in the garage I need to find and then the car is ready for collection at the end of the month.

So, work on Beta7 has been limited this week, plus it's been wet and/or cold outdoors this week. Anyway, rear seat backs unscrewed and removed and stored. Now I can see what the original trim colour was like - I doubt it'll clean up completely but you never know. Last of the puddles have been dried out and that might give me a chance to clean up the floorpan and treat the surface rust. The aerial has been removed and the hole taped over - it'll get welded up. Both rear lights came out easily, fixings mostly broken so that's the first repair job to be addressed before they go into the storage box. The frames each have one fixing screw sheared, I doubt I can fix them properly but there are enough to hold them in place. Both frames have overspray that comes off with a bit of elbow grease and a few bits of corrosion that's probably going to bug me but I doubt there are perfect ones out there. One has a crack between the centre horizontal bar and the outer edge - JB Weld will sort that. The lenses have seen better day, lots of minor scratches but no cracks. One side Siem, the  other Altissimo. The reflector bodies are rough but repairable with a little fibreglass and new rivbolt studs, a good clean and maybe a respray of the silver surfaces. The bulb holders look serviceable but one has a broken side clip, the broken bit was in the boot!

I found a minor perforation of the steel under the right light cluster on the seam. Won't be the last! I've started cleaning out the crud in the bottom of the boot and the floors behind the rear inner arches and they're all rock solid. If we get a warm day I'll think about removing the bitumen from the towers to see if they are as good as I hope! There is some plating on the inside of the boot that's odd, probably minor accident repairs? I'm sure I'll discover filler on the rear panel. The repair isn't pretty but it looks strong and will be covered by the carpet eventually.

The car was missing it's sun visors but a pair appeared on eBay this week and an offer has been accepted for them. Should be here next week. One more missing part crossed off the list!

Guy

This morning was dry so I got underneath the bonnet to carry on stripping out the various parts left on the engine to make lifting it out easier when the time comes. The alternator & bracket came off, distributor out, dipstick & tube, water rails, horn and compressor all put on the refurb shelf. Wiring moved out of the way etc. I think I've just got the shocks on either end end of the drivetrain to disconnect, the gear linkage, two driveshafts and three engine mounts to undo and it'll come out. Here's some pictures showing the inner wings, they need cleaning up but look solid to me. I have no idea how long the head has been off and I haven't attempted to turn the engine yet, I need to clean out the bores in case there's anything in there but the bores look okay to me, hopefully a clean and light hone will be all that's needed!

This afternoon was spent in the garage. I looked at the air horns and wondered...... as you do.

Oops. Woke the wife up!! So I spent the rest of the time cleaning 40 years of crud off to find a nice red finish underneath the horns and pipework and a decent black on the compressor. The mounting bracket has been wire brushed, rust converted and zinc primed. It won't be an original finish but it'll get a coat or two of satin black tomorrow and that's the first thing that'll go in a box labelled "restored, ready for re-installation". It's a minor step but a positive first one.

I've polished up the lenses for one rear cluster and most of the frame. That needs another 24 hours to see if the JB Weld will hold. I may have disturbed it too soon. I can always dig it out and try again.

That's it for this week!

Guy

And a lovely day her in sunny Formby - all day long. Apart from 90 minutes when the boiler was being fixed I was on the driveway from 10.30 to 4pm. Wiring loom removed and labelled from the rear corners of the boot and coiled up on the front footwells. That entailed two connectors being snipped for the heated rear window so it they could be pulled from underneath the trim. I also pulled the fuel filler neck off so I could drop the fuel tank half an inch to allow the sender cables to be pulled through. Still not had an issue with any fixings except one plastic screw block that doesn't want to come out. It will.

I did a little scraping of the floorpan and inner sills and removal of the adjoining bitumen pads where the glue had failed and treated them to some rust converter. There is a patch in front left footwell that'll need cutting out and replacing and another on the top of the drivers side sill that I managed to punch through with a screwdriver, nothing severe. I did find some corrosion on the right rear suspension tower, a small patch where the fuel line has rubbed the paint away and another at the front where there's a join with the inner wing. I think they'll be fairly straight forward to cut out and fix properly.

I can see (and smell) fuel at the bottom of the filler pipe so I guess that's one of the next tasks before It comes into the garage. Any guesses as to how much will be in there if it can be seen there? Half a tank? I think I might need to look into disposal, not sure I want to risk putting into another car! I wonder if the council tip takes it?

Other stuff on the calendar tomorrow but the next dry day will probably see me start on the removal of the heater box and dashboard after taking the door cards off. If I can leave the steering column in place ready for the move into the garage.

Guy

Hi Guy

Whilst I remember if you can get hold of a Numatic George Hoover it will clean up your carpet and possible the seat/ panel trim very nicely.

Enjoy

Eric
PS it clean my carpet to an amazing extent.

Thanks for the tip Eric, the carpet came up pretty well for just a brush and light hoover except for a few rust stains from the seatbelt mount bracket. It's certainly worth a go! I can hire one for not very much.

Guy

I managed to had a look at why the seats weren't playing nicely. Neither had the crossbar linking the rake adjusters. I found one in the pile of bits I didn't throw away as I wasn't sure of it's origins but now I'll need another. Added to the list. I did remember to remove the boot light but the lenses is melted. Fortunately this is a Stratos part and I happened to have a spare one! And I also dug out an old spare Beta driveshaft as I needed to extract the outer collar for Stratos2! It all came apart easily enough but in taking pictures to demonstrate the reassembly I stabbed myself in the thumb with a screwdriver.... Idiot! Does anyone have an idiots guide for how the get the collar over the ring in it's groove in preparation for fitting it into the outer CV joint? I'll be doing that twice in the coming months!I did think about a suitable jubilee clip to compress it and then using the ring to slide it down the splines. a bit like a piston ring compressor tool...

Guy

Guy,
I recall in the past I removed the spring ring, compress it so that it's
static end-to-end, and fit it back on the shaft. The collar should now
be a slide fit. You can always open up the ring if it's a bit 'small'.

Nigel

Thanks Nigel, I'm a little concerned that compressing the ring to the extent that the collar slips over is the right thing to do? If it's compressed beyond it's memory position it won't expand once the collar is released on pressing it into the outer CV and might allow the shaft to slip out of joint? How catastrophic that might be I don't know. But I do know that I don't want to find out! I'll re-read the Haynes manual and see what it says come the day the shafts are reassembled!

Guy

Got bored of working at the back of the car, not that there's a lot left bar the fuel tank and it's plumbing, so I moved to the other end for a change of scenery!
And i found the first screw that wouldn't come out with a Phillips screwdriver. It moved easily enough with a pair of molegrips. So, wiring looms down each inner wing have been unclipped, labelled and moved as far back as I can get them for now. The brake warning sensor wires need to be undone before I can get them back to the bulkhead. The radiator grille cam out very easily and a little WD40 on the headlamp bolts saw them follow quickly. Moving inside the radiator shroud came out easily enough but the nearside panel is heavily corroded at the bottom, probably enough to warrant making a new one, it's just a few simple folds.
Windscreen wipers off (the only thing holding them on was tension from the springs pressing the blades onto the glass! No nuts on the spindles.... Wiper motor assembly out next and the first "unfamiliar" feature to me - the mounting bobbins - I don't recall them being like that on the 1978 car! Not to worry, it all came out easily enough. Screwed to the underside of the front scuttle were the remains of the two windscreen washer brackets - I may be able to resurrect them now. Unless anyone has spares or is 3D printing this part?
Clutch cable adjuster was treated to WD40 and released easily enough too!
Having got the scuttle cleared of the wipers and release cables and mechanism I could then clear out the years of crud. And amongst all that were several lumps of filler. I know the scuttle panel is going to be an issue...
And that led me to have a go at the inner wings forward of the suspension turrets with a soft wire brush, some degreaser and rags and quick wipe down. I also had a go at the front lower crossmember (I ws worrying about this as I'd noted Mark sells repair sections). I've not done much on the nearside inner around the battery tray as it's covered in primer, I assume that it's had an acid leak at some point. Photo below, all came up beautifully and nothing to give any cause for concern here.
Another few days and I'll be at the point it really needs to be in the garage to strip out the glass!

Sadly the parts wanted list has grown again...

I'm now contemplating the next tasks that can be accomplished on the driveway, all weather dependant! I think I can manage the following:
1. Undo the 6 inner CV joint bolts each side, if I can remove the outer nuts first, and remove the driveshafts.
2. Drain down the brake fluids and remove the callipers, master cylinder and reservoir.
3. Remove the gear linkages that I disconnected today.
4. Remove the instruments, steering wheel, column shroud and stalks.
5. Drop the steering/pedal boxes onto the floorpan.
6. Remove the dashboard and heater box. (this is where I'm going to have to start really documenting stuff with the camera).
7. Remove the door cards and furniture.
8. Remove the wiring loom.
9. Drain and drop the fuel tank and then vent it for 20 minutes with the Alfa before storing it somewhere safe!

I'm not sure about removing the headless engine on the drive. But it may come to that if we get a guaranteed dry day and I can shift the bonnet hinge pins! Suspension and engine subframe, glass, headliner and sunroof will have to wait until it's under cover as will fuel lines and brake pipes.
Guy

Hi Guy

A few points.

On the bonnet undo the bolts, I found the pins a pain, though the bolts can be. I normally remove the ones attached to the crossmember.

I have a spare bar for the seat

The bobbins are standard from Series 1 for the wiper motor mounts.

Peter

Hi Peter, thanks for the info on the bobbins and the spare bar! Much appreciated!

The reason I go for the pins is so I can remove/replace the bonnet on my own. I used to push them out with a thinner pin (AKA a cut down nail), close the bonnet, remove the nails and lift the bonnet off. If the pins couldn't be moved in situ then it was a case of undoing the hinges from the slam panel and bonnet and dealing with them on the bench.

I'll find out what works in the coming days but always appreciate any input from anyone with experience! Mine is mainly with the later dogleg hinge that you could get at more easily than the earlier flat type (that I have now!)

Guy

Hi Guy

I tried to remove the pins on the IE Coupe with zero success and one of the bolts needed a welded on nut to remove it.

As you say it is much simpler if you can remove the pins, I managed to remove the bonnet on my own using tne bolts, but it is a scary process.

Peter

This is going to need careful thinking! The pins are both stuck tight in the centre part of the hinge, attached to the bonnet. The screws in the body half of the hinges show damage from removal attempts. I haven't swung an impact driver at them yet and will carry on soaking the hinges in WD40 and try to get some PlusGas on them over the weekend. Or just leave things until it's under cover! I can see welding nuts to the screw heads to remove them (once it's under cover as I wouldn't be able to close the bonnet until they're out!) and replacing with stainless countersunk Allen bolts later on. Welding a nut to the hinge pin may also be a good plan. if I had a welder...
Guy

Hi Guy

Me neither, but the car was at the body guy’s who does have one.

Grope you have good luck with soaking the pins

Peter

Hi Guy

I did get mashed bonnet screws out with a combination of air die grinder and a decent MIG Welder (RTech Inverter). You die grind the center of the bolt head with a carbide bit to create a recess for the weld to get more grip. Then it is high AMP mid wire speed to attach 10mm nuts. My first attempt did not have the welder settings right and the nut came off before the bolt cam out. A change of settings later and success.

A Classic car body shop will be used to doing this sort of stuff if MIG and Compressor ownership is beyond your personal desire to own expensive tools.

Eric       

I'd love to be able to weld Peter but sadly that's probably going to be beyond me! Nightschool.... ooh there's a thought! I'll get them off somehow even if I have to design a tool to push them out - that should be easy enough!

Today was a first in Beta ownership for me. I managed to remove a hub nut without recourse to an ever increase sized drill bit. It did involve some surgery with a grinder to a 36mm socket to get it to fit inside the hub and securely over the nut and then all my weight on a breaker bar with a further tool (designed for this job but with a 5*98 PCD) to take the force generated! The 6 inner bolts were fairly straight forward after that and the nearside shaft now sits on the bench awaiting further disassembly, cleaning (I might have some use for that stale petrol after all), a coat of paint and re-assembly with new boots and grease if the bearing runs and bearings are good. One shaft at a time, carefully labelled so it eventually goes back on the right side in case there are any stress twists in it. The boots are all the original ones from Lancia judging by the securing bands.

Guy

Hi Guy

You normally take the disk off before undoing the nut.

Having suffered before with these nuts, I was pleasantly surprised after buying a high torque impact wrench (Dewalt 899) they came off without too much trying. Having now just taken an engine to pieces it also was child’s play with it having previously had a nightmare trying to get the bolt off the shaft which activates the mechanical fuel pump and having to wedge the flywheel before you can undo the crank nut, not necessary with the impact.

Peter

Thanks Peter, I considered removing the disc and calliper but wanted to leave them in situ until the car is in the garage, plus the shoulder on the disc gave me a leverage point for the bolt on tool, grinding down the socket a little was the alternative method I chose. It worked so no need to remove the disc on this side. The shaft I removed yesterday was torn down to it's constituent components today and the worst of the crud removed. There is a little play in the outer CV joint, I'll strip it down for inspection next week to check the racers for wear and if they're undamaged I'll try a rebuild with new grease and boots and see if it's okay. I didn't check the inner one for play but will do. Last step will be to wire brush the shaft and give it a coat of paint before it goes into the done box! Then onto the second one.

I also have a design for a tool to remove the bonnet hinge pins! If it works it's not something I think i'll need again so it can be passed around others in need. Does the forum have a repository for special tools?

Guy

Hi Guy

No organised tool repository.

I have in the past enquired on the LMC for tool hire as they have a fair few I think for the Beta, but unless you really need it, I found the cost to be quite expensive by the time you pay for tne rental and shipping etc.

You will find that various folk have the odd special tool, eg bearing ring tool and some will lend them.

In my experience very few special tools are actually required which is useful. You can often find a work around eg for the rear anti roll bar I use a ratchet strap to compress it.

Peter

Minor progress in the last few days. The tool I made for the bonnet pin removal wasn't strong enough and bent. A small modification next week may yield results but in the meantime the pins are getting sprayed with PlusGas (or Halfrauds equivalent) to loosen them. Perhaps.

Disassembly continues with a few more minor pieces removed and bagged. So far a few have been cleaned/polished and put away for the rebuild but this week saw the first part overhauled properly. The nearside driveshaft has been removed, disassembled, shaft cleaned, degreased and painted. The inner CV joint broken into it's 9 component parts, examined and appears healthy so it's been reassembled ready for grease. The outer CV joint was showing signs of wear and play but a good replacement has been dug out of 30 years of Stratos spares and assembled onto the shaft with a new boot and tie straps. I've placed my first order with Mark which includes a pair of inner boots and when they arrive that shaft will be boxed up and put away until it's needed again. Next week should see the same process with the other shaft. They'll go back on the side that they came off, I'll be able to tell by the direction I've put the straps on, exposed end trailing the direction of rotation.
The cover for the fuel pipes in the boot was also stripped of paint and rust, the surface treated with rust converter, primed and top coated again. Hopefully we'll get some nice days next week so spend a few hours tinkering!
Guy

eBay trawling this week - an "unidentified" water pump looked like a Beta one to me so a punt at £15 could be a worthwhile gamble. Hopefully there's no difference across engine capacities?
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132930597736 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/132930597736)
Guy

Hi Guy

I think the VX or a n other had larger impeller or higher capacity, but standard one for your carb 2l should be fine.

Peter

VX and Monte have deeper impellor pumps

Thanks for the information on pumps, it makes perfect sense that the Montecarlo would have a stronger pump, there's more fluid to me moved further. I wonder if there was real need on the VX or if they used surplus Montecarlo stocks up?
Looks like the one on the way will be suitable, I'm sure the gaskets I need for it will come in a full gasket set in due course.

Another morning and the first snapped bolt. Clutch tripod front bolt let go. Guess the gearbox is coming out with it attached. Second driveshaft is now out ready to be cleaned and reassembled and put away pending it’s return! Gear lever and tunnel out, clutch cable out plus a few odds and ends. All callipers undone and hanging loose. At least the car rolls easily now.

And a horror story - this is why you shouldn’t put speakers in the door panels. The card is completely rotted out, the bottom six inches and more are just gone. 😢😢😢😢

On the Door card somewhere on FB there is a guy in Italy doing a remanufacture service. The pattern is a mirror image so if the passenger side is OK you can copy that. I thought I was being clever changing to plywood but it made using the original pressed in top rail fixings impossible. So make them in hardboard and varnish the door side. BTW the damage is as likely because the door water membrane was not complete or stupidly fitted. This is usually a jobbing garage doing an electric window repair that is completely un familiar with Betas.

Good luck

Eric

Thanks for the tip Eric - I may be able to use the drivers door one as a pattern as that has survived marginally better - despite having no plastic membranes to guide the water back into the door. All that remained were the plastic frames at the top of the door where the curtains should be. But at least I think I have a full set of those so it's not rocket science to remake them in suitable heavy duty plastic. Onwards!
Guy

Hi Guy

Not sure the speaker is at fault there. That membrane should be attached to the door, not the card and amusing to see the hole cut for the speaker, obviously the person doing it had no idea…….

I remade mine out of the black plastic used for flooring, nice and heavy duty and importantly will not disintegrate.

Peter

Peter, I'm definitely not blaming the speaker.. It'll never have anything to say again. ;D ;D.

Definitely the muppet that installed it and saw the need to cut a hole in the sheeting and also "reinstall" the remains of the cover upside down, stuck to the door card. When you say flooring plastic are you talking about remaking the waterproofing curtains or the door cards themselves? If it's the door cards that sounds like a great idea (and clues to source material would be appreciated! I was planning on using some damp proof course material to replace the curtains. I have a roll of it lying around....

Guy

Hi Guy

No, sadly just the protective sheeting, it is called damp proof membrane or Visqueen.

Peter

Not getting into the garage today... Well, maybe after lunch!

Parcel delivery from Mark with the first order of sundry bits, nothing significant (except the inner CV joint boots). I'm really happy with the speed the order was turned around in and will be making (lots) more purchases in the coming months. I may even want to drop in one day! I wonder if there is an open day in the offing this year?

Back to door cards. I've done a little bit of research and come up with a potential option, a product called Stokbord that is made of recycled plastic and is available in 3mm thickness in sheets 2440x1220 and is (apparently) easily cut or routed. I suspect that the trim could be Sikaflexed to it for a permanent solution. £60 a sheet but the nearest stockist is in Driffield, 112 miles away which will add to the cost. I think one sheet could produce four door cards and two rear side panels. It may even be worthwhile making a plywood jig to produce them? I can't be the only one needing them!

https://www.centriforce.com/product/stokbord-sheet/ (https://www.centriforce.com/product/stokbord-sheet/)

Guy

Hi Guy

Remember I have a couple of Coupe doors and cannot remember about the state of the door cards, but will be visiting site this Friday so can check.

Peter

Thanks Peter, would Friday be a good day to meet you there? I'm tied up the week after with Race Retro from Thursday to Sunday evening. But yes, please check on the state of the door cards (and maybe the drivers door - I found corrosion on it top and bottom yesterday when that door card came off).
Guy

Hi Guy

You should be OK to Staple to that like the original and bash the top rail stakes into it which is hard to do with plywood. Air staplers are plentiful and so are electric ones if you have no compressor. If you use staples and contact adhesive you do not get the bleed through risk of Sikaflex / no more nails.

Eric

Hi Guy

I will be with Nigel on Friday and not sure yet how it is going to play out, so suggest not. Also you had other parts on your list which I will not have time to look out before then.

From my point of view, waiting a couple of weeks is not an issue.

Peter

Evening Guy,
Your comment about someone else needing door panels. I’m in the same position and will have to do something. I haven’t decided what’s the best way to go yet, but I’ve got a while to dither before the interior is priority.

Cheers
Ian

Hi Ian, I've been contemplating this today whilst stripping, cleaning, rust treating and painting the second driveshaft and outer CV joint ready for reassembly on Friday....

I'll contact the makers and see if they have a distributor who can cut a couple of sheets into 48cm panels and post them to me as its a 5 hour round trip to the nearest stockist!
 
Once that's done I think it'll be fairly easy to cut two thicker pieces of plywood to pattern to make a sandwich type jig that, once set up, will take minutes to rout out a plastic panel. I may need to think about the fixing pins for the vertical sides to use a more easily available clip though? Plus there are a lot of holes in the panel that don't appear to be applicable to my car. I'm not sure all would need cutting? Just the alternative one for manual winders? If I do proceed with the project I may need to canvas opinion as to which holes are actually needed!

Watch this space as they say....

Guy

Hi Guy

Mine were made by a furniture maker talked into it by my body shop. There are round jig holes in those backing panels I think intended to hold material to be cut to the template. Coupe and Spyders have very different rear cards and S1 doors have different fixing holes. Over the years many S1 doors have been used as replacements for S2 damaged items. I got a NOS S1 Coupe door from Italy and converted it to a Spyder Door. I also had to drill extra holes for the VX door cards.

Eric   

A little more progress this week. Spent a few hours on the radiator fan shroud, wire brushed the little paint that was left off it, treated the surface to a coat of rust converter, primer and satin black paint. I put it away before I took a picture sorry!
And then noticed Mark had one powder coated for £20. If I’d seen that earlier I might not have bothered! The fan works but needs an overhaul and clean which I’ll get to next week.

I also picked up a sheet of 3mm fencing plastic. It was rolled up to fit into the Alfa and it retained some of that shape. It’s been cut down into 5 sections 48cm by 122cm and flattened again. Whilst it does cut with a Stanley knife it’s hard going which is encouraging! I need to get some plywood to make a guide pattern/clamp for the sheets to have a go at making a new set of inner cards but it looks very promising. It’ll be a month or so before I can revisit this little project. Watch this space!

Guy

Unfortunately the Lancia Delta fuel cap, despite looking identical to the Beta in shape and mechanism, is slightly smaller than the Beta flap. Still on the lookout for a decent one!

Guy

Today was a major day with a very fruitful trip to Derby and back with the Alfa loaded to the gunnels! And a lot of parts crossed off the needed list as well as some i didn't know I needed.

Neil has had a VX Coupe for sale on eBay and currently has a VX drivetrain sat on a subframe for sale but it's missing the carburettor, and inlet tract to the face of the supercharger which is also missing it's driven cog. Those parts may be in a box somewhere in his garage but I didn't look too hard at them.

I did however come away with a full boot carpet set, a pair of rear lights, a single headlamp assembly and headlamp trim. A boot lock and key (!) that may or may not be the right type. I think I've got a full set of usable door and window seals plus the boot seal and the correct one for the scuttle too. A pair of side repeaters with a chrome base and gaskets with unbroken studs. A VX gearknob and a VX horn push. Then there was a NOS pair of door cards, one in VX trim, two used rear side trims in slightly faded VX trim plus enough material to retrim them to match the retrimmed VX Recaros and rear seats I also bought. So that's my interior pretty much sorted out now. It's going to look spectacular!

Guy

Back from a week's skiing in Austria (in one piece) but not much accomplished this week! I had hoped to remove the handbrake cable but the plan didn't work... The end ferrules are well and truly seized in the callipers. I'll be waiting until it's in the garage as I want to use the hydraulics to start the pistons moving before I take the brakes apart. That should then let me remove the cable from the rear callipers on the bench.

Fuel filler flap is now sorted (pending the arrival of a NOS eBay purchase from Cyprus). I have a Delta one that has the same mechanism but is smaller and may try modifying that with a new cover but no lock hole for a smoother finish. I can either fit a lockable cap to it or an electric solenoid release mechanism and emergency pull cable from an Alfa 164. Wish I'd kept those bits from the last 164 I killed....

This time next week the shell should be safely installed in the garage!

Guy

Can anyone identify this lock? Doesn’t appear to fit my 1979/81 Coupe! If you’ve got a photo of the correct one I’d appreciate it!

Lancia Beta Saloon I believe ??? (Not Spyder,Coupe or HPE)
Also a few being advertised on EBay at the moment as Lancia Prisma boot locks ?
Raised a thread on this before in the body section under "Spyder Boot Lock"
Sorry don't know how to add that link

Hi Guy

The important thing is you can usually swap the rear section to Coupe Spider etc. This means you re-use the buts from the old lock to end up with key matched new locks. There is a circlip holding the rear bit of metal on and 2 compress to release plastic pegs holding the rear plastic bit.

Enjoy

Eric

I don't have a photo but the metal part of the Coupe lock is more like a finger. Even when they fit they are difficult. After changing my lid in 2015 I've never got the lock to work consistently......

Thanks everyone, the bloke I got it from had another NOS one the same and a slightly different one that may be Coupe. After some trawling of the net I now know what to look for, either as a direct replacement or to cannibalise for this lock. Had it been HPE i would have known it despite the passage of 25 years plus!

Cheers!

Big day today. Huge step forward. Stratos2 left for Newcastle and Beta7 is in the garage where teardown can continue. In the dry. After a shelf tidy. Although there is a lot of storage space in the shell….

NEC day out tomorrow when I really want to be in the garage….

Guy

Anyone ever seen a replacement windscreen made by this company?

And the NOS filler flap arrived today. In comparison to the Delta one you can see there’s a difference in shape, not massive but mainly in the curvature on the corners. I may use the Delta one to make an alternative flap with a tighter panel gap and no lock hole and make an electric release mechanism for it.

Empty windscreen aperture this afternoon after a few hours careful working with a Stanley knife…. A Draper tool I bought yesterday at the NEC wasn’t needed. It would have broken the screen which is out in one piece. I’ll put it on the shelf for emergency use as there’s a little delaminating in the top left corner.

The screen surround is going to need some metal letting in. Probably a scuttle panel, maybe most if the perimeter of the screen. We’ll know once it’s been stripped fully.

And at close of play today all the glass remaining is the rear screen which has been relieved of it’s stainless steel trim. A few hours cutting with a Stanley knife later this week should see it out. It’s the original rear screen, evidenced by the copper heating/curing wire still being in place.
Guy

That screen aperture doesn't look bad in the scheme of things Guy. The smallish hole in the bottom right hand corner often develops into a large hole in the scuttle panel itself.....

There's a lot of filler around the screen Neil, there are multiple holes and a few splits along the bottom and up the sides. There is also corrosion above the screen. It looks like it's been tackled previously with red oxide paint and crossed fingers. I'm not overly concerned by it, there's good steel nearby and repair panels available. I'll find out how bad it is in due course! At the end of the day it's a 40 year old Beta, when was the last time one of these cars (in the UK) didn't need a little attention to the metal!

Hi Guy

Depending on your timing, there may be some sections of the HPE screen surround left which you could use, but will be a little while until my guy gets started on it.

Peter

That's very kind Peter - if there's anything left of it it may be easier to take the whole surround and use it for patch repairs where needed - assuming it's in a better state than what I have!
Guy

Hi Guy

As with most surrounds there are bad areas on both the HPE and Coupe, but luckily not the same spot. I would think there would be some decent sections left which you can use for repairs.

Peter

Apologies for my misunderstanding Peter - the early HPE take precedence and anything left over is appreciated!

Cheers
Guy

20 minutes to remove the rear screen in one piece - that was easier than I thought it would be. Just the plastic trim on the inside to get off safely now and then I can move onto the next step, whatever that might be!

Not much progress this last week, dental procedures and an opticians visit plus the usual household jobs have got in the way.

Anyhoo - the car is on axle stands so I could drop the callipers off the axles, fit some wooden blocks and pump the brake pedal to push to pistons out, all moved out easily enough so can be stripped and rebuilt with new seals. The shell now and devoid of it's rear callipers, handbrake cable, handbrake lever and lower cover, all came off without any seized fixings. The front ones will probably come off tomorrow. The fluid in the system is slowly draining into suitable containers. The exhaust heat shield was less of a success with one or the three fixing bolts shearing. The remains will have to be drilled out and retapped. Not too much of an issue I hope!

Bonnet hinges... The score today is tool 1:hinges1. The offside pin came out after the application of a little heat from a paint stripper gun, releasing fluid and pressure from the tool. The nearside hinge was given the same treatment but it's still stuck. A slight redesign of the tool and some tougher threaded bar might be the next step.

I've made contact with Envirostrip in Tamworth and had quotes to strip the shell of paint/sealant/filler and e-coat it once repaired. Expensive but essential for the car to make the next 40 years. They have a 6 week lead time but I've decided not to set a date until the shell is fully stripped. There'll be plenty to do between placing an order and the shell being returned on the mechanical side of things.

The parts list has shrunk a little more after a visit to see Neil in Derby again. I now have a full set of VX Bronzo glass but the seal for the front screen was cut when removing it and is only good for storage. I'm not sure about using it now as the rubber trimmed screens don't look as good as the standard bonded ones. So I may still be looking for 2 clear glass pieces for the passenger door with mirror holes.

I also have a trip on Saturday to meet up with a LMC friend I almost bought a Y10 from, he's got some parts he's donating to the cause and anything I don't need will be made available to fellow Beta owners or dropped off with Mark who can decide to save/scrap as he sees fit!

Guy

I managed to get half a day in the garage today.
All four brake callipers detached and fluid drained from the system. A little ended up on the garage floor but easily cleaned up.
Then the four calliper carriers came off, except for one bolt that seems to be fouling a rear transverse arm. I'll get that later.
Had another go at the bonnet, moved the car to the front of the garage so I could lean the bonnet against the wall safely. That allowed me to get the impact driver square on. Two bolts came off cleanly but the third one required a few cycles of heat, release fluid and scraping and not a little violence before it submitted. And then the bonnet was off!
Thirty minutes later....

Amazing progress Guy, just notched up 700 miles driving locally in the Hawk, now time to drive the Beta again! I think your hard work will pay off sooner rather than later at this rate! Keep up the good work :)

Great mileage in early days Tim! If you're out in the Hawk you have a destination here where the kettle is always hot and Jacob can give me some pointers!

A long day today, on the road at 6.30 and home at 3.00 with a van full of bits and pieces. Some duplicates now and a few more missing pieces sourced. I now no longer need the engine/exhaust clamp or the cam belt tensioner spring and special bolt! The haul also included two sets of front stub axles, four driveshafts with CV joints and a pair of rear stub axles with the anti roll bar etc etc. A lot of the stuff is quite corroded but should come back to life after shot blasting and powder coating. There are some brake callipers and carriers if anyone wants a spare set? Some gold for me in the plastic top for the jack and some bracketry I'm not 100% sure about - probably the mounts for the jack I think. I got a pair of silver door handles, a boot lock and a very rusty petrol flap with a lock. Missing is the glovebox lock that might yield a key number on the back but that may be in Kev's loft and he's going to dig that out sometime. There was also a plug in rechargeable torch (bound to be dead) and a couple of sets of airhorns. Countless bits of rubber bungs and plastic clips but all the X variety (so far) are the large type for side trims, not the ones for the rear stainless trim. oooh - and a 99% straight front bumper with excellent rubber. It's all be put away in the garage but a gearbox will have to go live in the shed for a while.

Body panels, there's a pair of front wings, a front valance and a pair of rear wings. Nothing pristine and the rear ones may only yield cuts for repairing other panels. One front wing is fairly heavily corroded and the other shows tears to the top front in the steel. That one may repair okay or provide me with a bottom offset to repair mine if it is a lacey as I suspect! The valance is heavily dented. I'll post pictures of these items tomorrow or Monday in case anyone wants to give them a home. I'm going to try to get them under cover but I'm just about out of space now!

There's an offside HPE mirror with a broken corner too, no good to me!

I haven't put much in the scrap pile yet - just brake discs, rear top mounts and springs plus a steering column upper that's not got a key and has a lot of rust on the shafts.

If anyone needs anything please shout!

Guy

Hi Guy

Not a trivial trip the Kevin from your place. From looking at the photos I would be interested in a pair of the rubber boots which attach to the inner wings and go over the rack arms if you have spares?

Peter

There are three of them Peter, I haven't checked but with my luck that means I'll have three left ones.... Of course you can have a pair, it's not something I was looking for on my car.

Guy

Hi Guy

Most likely the same side. I mainly need one side, will double check which one is all mangled

Thanks

Peter

Hi

The one I need is below. It has a flap to the lower right which is missing on this one and has a small protrusion inboard of the flap.

Peter

Looks like I have two right and one left spare Peter. You’re welcome to a pair!
Guy

Hi Guy

Thanks, that looks a whole lot better than the two mangled ones I have!

Peter

I’ve been digging through the smaller stuff I collected from Kev, bits I couldn’t look at as I put them away. Lots of nuts, bolts, washers and seat fixings plus plastic fittings. There was only one piece of trim that goes under the sill covers and, miraculously, it was the side I was missing! Another small part ticked off the list!

I’ll add a new thread on the spares area for bits I collected but don’t need next.

Guy

Hi Guy.
You haven't got a spare silver escutcheon which fits on the door card around the lock button on the inside have you by any chance?
Thanks
C

Probably Clifford! Let me check later today and get back to you!

Guy

There were two different types, the pre facelift have bright silver finish, the facelift have a satin finish.

You will find that a lot have one or more fingers missing due to difficulty removing/installing

Peter

Clifford, I've got two spare ones with the retaining clip, both are the later satin finish. Unfortunately they are both 3 legged ones. You're welcome to them if it helps? Drop me a PM with your address and I'll pop them in the post to you.
Guy

That's excellent Guy. Thank you. I will send you a pm.
C

Well that’s the fuel tank out without any stripped fixings. It’s been drained of 20 litres of fuel. The first 10 came out looking pretty clean, the last 10 not so much. A mixture of water and crud. Then an hour being vented with diesel fumes from the 159. The outside of the tank looks okay but the inside….. might need to get a camera in there to see what it’s like. Probably going to be usable once treated by a specialist. Does anyone have one to recommend?

And here’s the cause of the engine failure that led to a teardown by the last owner. There’s one bent valve at least. One day soon I’ll get the block onto a stand and see if it’s seized….

Do you think I could reuse the belt if I stapled the teeth back down and ran it in the other direction?? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

Guy,
Your repair plan, incredible , but use stainless clips and some silicon for good measure.
Running it backwards will give you amazing performance with 5 reverse gears, so
make sure your mirrors reflect properly.
Hope this helps.

I spent a week attempting to clean my tank. Shaking it with nuts and bolts inside
brought out so much rust I gave up. I figured the base would be rather thin.

Nigel

Thanks for the thoughts Nigel - the plan wasn't to run the engine backwards, just to take the belt on so that it runs in the other direction to it's original installation. I think Sikaflex would be a better option than silicon......

I'm looking at a POR15 solution to seal the inside of the tank, there's a rust treatment first followed by the sealant but it's a one time attempt to fix I think. So long as it's reasonably solid metal without any holes I think it ought to work. Provided the sealant, once cured, doesn't block the inlet and outlet pipes.

Got the dash out this afternoon, the only fixing I forgot about was the bolt under the dash in the passenger footwell. Soon fixed.

And the bulkhead is rock solid too. Happy days! Heater box next and then the wiring loom next I think.

A lovely sunny day today when I could push the car onto the driveway. The wiring loom is out and labelled up. Mostly… just the two wires in each door for the windows to come out when I strip them down next week.

Also got the pedal box out. And the brake servo. And the cross bulkhead linkages. The shaped (soggy) soundproofing came out in one piece too and may well go back in once dried out.

Rust. Found a patch on the offside inner arch including a pinhole. Looks like it’ll clean up and can be welded up easily enough.

Steering and suspension, headlining and sunroof, fuel and brake lines and door furniture to go. Plus all the remaining plastic fixing blocks to trace and remove. Getting there!

ooh -  another wanted - has anyone got a heater box top flap - the plastic one spare? Mine appears to have been worn through a little!

Guy

That all looks pretty damn good. . . aren't these cars meant to have rusted away? . . . still waiting for mine to do that ;D

Come up and see it sometime soon Tim!

The plan to use dry ice and isopropyl alcohol to remove the bitumen floor covering didn't work out. I started to use a scraper tool as my curiosity got the better of me. So far the front footwells are done and half the rears. There are a few other pads to remove underneath the rear seats, on the rear suspension towers and front wheel arches.

So far it's looking not too bad. There is one patch where it's been plated over a split in the floorpan next to the sill. My guess is some muppet jacked the car there and damaged it enough to allow the rot to start. I'm struggling a little for time at the moment - the removal of the pads needs to be done outside the garage on dry days. The shelves appear to be full of parts and trim such that I'm now storing things inside the car itself. Hey ho.

Photos to follow next week if it stays dry and I finish building the bike shed and changing the stereo on the Panda!

Guy

Guy

I did the POR 15 system on mine so its do-able. Tips- grease or silicone the sender mounting ring and studs to make sure it still 'floats' and you can get the nuts on. (I didn't make a great job of that bit)

Do - wear gloves.

Don't - wear anything you might want to wear again.

Have fun

Mark

Thanks Mark  - I need to look at the tank again once the shell is away. For the time being it's no longer a bomb waiting to go off! i suspect POR15 will be the way to go with it. I have a new sender unit on the way for the car so the old gasket can be sacrificed with a temporary cover. My concern is not blocking up the return and breather pipes..... I may need to ask the POR15 peeps about that nearer the time! There must be something that can be done to stop this.

I have a tarpaulin (actually half a hang glider wing) and a big sheet of plastic ready for the day!

Guy

It’s a 44 year old Lancia Beta. I kept telling myself that this last week or so as the pads came off the floorpan, boot floor and suspension turrets. There’s going to be corrosion I kept telling myself. We’ll at least I’m not disappointed, there is. The boot floor and rear seat area came up as perfect. Well pleased! The four footwells are surface corroded but sound but for a patch that’ll need surgery on the left front outer. I don’t think that’s a huge issue. Front inner arches and front bulkhead aren’t perforated anywhere but will need taking back to solid surfaces to make sure. Rear turrets. There’s rust in the lower seams where they join the boot floor and a patch on either side next to the side bracketry and another lower down on the offside inner side about 6 inches up. All looks repairable for now. Overall I’m chuffed to bits with the floorpan!

Task for the rest of this week (if I can get to it) are removal of the plastic inner trim around the rear window aperture which will allow me to get the headlining and sunroof out for a better look at the state of the tinwork around the perimeter of the roof. Maybe a day or so for removing various plastic trims/plugs etc - especially the under car ones for fuel and brake lines. I suspect the heads I can see poking into the cabin have a centre pin that pushes out which will allow them to be washed and re-used? And with them out the fuel and brake lines can come out after I've made some notes (or taken pictures) for which pipe goes where. Steering, suspension, door furniture and subframes plus arch liners and it'll be time to remove the wings and front valence to see what it's like under there.  

Then book it in to be taken away for paint stripping prior to tinwork. Six week wait I think for the strippers! By then I may have more components to refurb! And hopefully some bits to work with following the open day at Marks!

Guy

Hi Guy

You should be pleased with the floor pan.

As to the plastic clips, yes, they have a centre pin which you can knock out.

Peter

Nice day today so got to spend it on the driveway whilst keeping an eye on contractors digging up our garden, lifting flags and block paving to install a new gas supply…. Long story 😳

So I got the opportunity to look at the headliner. After a couple of hours work the A,B and C pillar trims were carefully removed without damaging them. The headlining was detached along the sides which allowed me to see how it’s secured front and back and around the sunroof. It’s out now.

Haynes manual for the sunroof itself. No mention. Luckily there’s one on here (thanks Matt) so I’ll know what to expect if I tackle it tomorrow. Oddly it’s not something I’ve removed before. Sadly there is some corrosion up there that will need dealing with one way or the other.

Great work! Keep templates of the foam but replace with closed cell. Those sun roof drain hoses get blocked leading to trashed head linings and drips so it will be interesting to hear if your have crud in them.
I wish I was getting mine done. I am looking at a day packing away parts from the lock up I am gradually emptying then the focus is on making the Montecarlo fit to drive to Classic Le Mans at the end of June.

Eric

Thanks for the tip Eric, the main foam pad came off in one piece but left more bitumen on the roof to scrape off - thought I'd got it all. I'm sure the tubes will be blocked with crud - if Alfa 159 experience is anything to go by. Having said that the Lancia tube bores are significantly larger but I've yet to check where the pipes drain out from. There is a small chance they'l be free.

Do the rears drain into the side vent area or continue down into the boot? I haven't found the top end of the rear tubes yet, I assume there are some and they'll appear when the sunroof is out.

Guy

Sunroof. None of the offside tab screws want to play yet. Sprayed a little release fluid on them but contemplating violence with a drill.

Offside wing off plus arch liner. Top rail is buggered. Bugger. I’m sure it’s saveable but on a positive note tha bottom of the A post is rock solid with only a little bit missing from the bottom of the infill panel.

Near side will be worse. There’s filler bridging the gap between the scuttle and wing. Not a good sign.

Guy

Hi Guy,
Sunroof drain pipes confuse me. Both my late coupe and HPE sunroof rear drain pipes extend down into the boot past the rear of the wheel arch and exit through a grommet onto the road.
But the fronts are confusing. Both cars run the front drain pipes down the A-pillar, down inside the door pillar (they are visible behind the speaker panel) and then stop ‘INSIDE’ the box section!!! There is no drain hole exit onto the road.
How can this be correct? But both my late cars are the same.
I’m planning to drill a hole in the floor of the box section and replace the pipes with new longer pipes that will exit under the car.

Has anyone else got this problem?

Cheers
Ian

Near side might actually be better. Marginally.

Hi Ian, I still haven't goat the sunroof out to find the top end of the pipes but the bottom ends are behind the rear wheels and open. I haven't looked too hard yet for the bottom ends of the front drains but I can see them in the speaker holes running into the bottom of the A post. Luckily my car appears to have been heavily rustproofed and I hope the sills are pretty sound, obviously not going to find out until it's all fully stripped but wherever they terminate on my car they don't appear to have caused any issues. If I keep the sunroof I think, like you, I'll terminal these drains outside the car and will find a suitable spot in due course!

Guy

This morning's Beta activities just been curtailed, phone calls and footy coming up.

Front sunroof drain pipes also end inside the sill box section, I can see them through the holes in the bottom of the A post. That's going to be addressed in some way, either forward into the front inner arch area or through the floorpan/sill, sealed with a grommet.

Inner arch liners both off now, only one screw put up a fight but as the head pokes into the cabin a light tap from a hammer loosened it's grip. Steering boot lower screws all out as are the wing infiltrated panels. Both need a minor repair at the bottom but there's enough material and rubber left as a tell tale to identify and make the missing sections. Rust hey, who'd have thought it! Bonnet release cables now removed as I can now see the routing is easy enough.

And the two recalcitrant screws in the sunroof tab have both yielded to penetrating fluid spray so I can carry on with that on Tuesday when I can next get time on the car, weather permitting. It really is coming down to steering rack, suspension and brake/fuel lines and clips.

The front lower valance is still attached though. I put a bumper on the car which confirms it's got slight damage and needs to be pulled out at the centre.Once aligned that can come off too. Has anyone got any pictures of the lower support tabs/brackets, mine lokk a bit too bent?

Cheers
Guy

Tim was here today to give the Beta a once over and to let me see his completed (bar paint) Stratos! Great to see both of them!

Progress report - the last two screws for the sunroof must have been listening to threats of being drilled out and gave up the fight after a dose or two of penetrating fluid yesterday. The sunroof is now out thanks to the instructions posted my Mattnovat! I had a look for the ends of the rear drain tubes and found them near the tops of the rear turrets just inside the outer wing panels. Tubes are now off, labelled and put away for cleaning!

The second bonnet pin also decided it was time to see the light of day again. That involved removal of the hinge from the bonnet and a vice with a large rubber mallet.... Happy with that!

An hour or so spent going round removing rubber plugs/grommets and plastic screw sockets too.

Whilst Timwas here we had a look at the bottom end of the engine to see if it was actually seized. A screwdriver braced against a gearbox bell housing bolt could be used as a lever against the ring gear on the flywheel - and it turned freely! Joy! Not that that is going to stop me stripping it down for a full rebuild in the coming months! The waterways are a tad furred up!

Guy

Super impressed with the Coupe , this car has been really well looked after & rustproofed... before the black paint and those strange old wheels were fitted!
Lets be honest, you have to go a long way to beat standard Beta wheels.

Another one saved that will soon be one of the best, keep up the good work, it's already worth it!

The Hawk performed faultlessly on it's first trip up North, seems it's tailor made for the Snake Pass ;D

Cheers Guy, looking forward to seeing the next stage :)

I got a key code from Kevin from the glove box lock he has stored in his loft. Took a punt with that number and ordered a key to see if it would open the locks on the door handle set I got from him a few months back. Success on the doors and the petrol flap but not the boot lock. Yet. All the locks have white overspray so I assume it’s from the same car. A bit of WD40 and time might see it come back to life yet.

Another item ticked off the list!

Locksmith was recommended on here, John Richard at 202a Pensby Road on the Wirral. 0151 342 2318 or 4074. I can vouch for the service too now!

Guy

Guy.
Persevere with the boot lock with the key you got. I had a spare made and it was stiff on the boot at first but has loosened up.
The door locks will probably have more wear and therefore likely to take a new key more easily as mine did.
C

The boot locks can be proper weird. Mine worked fine before it was transferred to a new boot lid and ever since, if you lock it, you never know whether it will open easily or you will have a horrendous key breaking struggle. The lock will fit in two ways, I've tried both with no success.

Still soaking the lock in release fluid but no luck yet. I may yet resort to repinning one to match! When Tim was here last week he commented on the chassis plate. I’ve no idea what the Dymo label on it means but I think it’s been there since new…. Anyone any ideas?
Guy

I've not seen a Dymo tape like that before Guy but I imagine it was some sort of stock control number added by Lancar or the dealer. All sorts of schemes were on the go around the time of your car to move on slow moving stock.

Your car is a February 1980 build, so probably hung around for at least a year before being sold?

Hi Neil, how do you work out it’s a 1980 build? There’s a plate riveted to the front upper crossmember above the near side headlight that’s stamped “Cd011679” which I read as a construction date of 16th January 1979? This would have been around the time the r scandal was surfacing so cars were hanging about in stock for a while!

I have the Dymo label too. 030B03 on my 79 coupe 1600.

I have the copy build records in my DVLA role for LMC and your VIN is definitely February 80. Not seen your other plate either, so that is a puzzle……

Anyone with a 1300 Coupe got the label? Might read 030A03? It's beginning to sound like it's factory?

Neil - I like a puzzle! It's obviously been there since new! I wonder if we'll ever solve it?

Guy

My 1300 Coupe has neither the metal plate or the Dymo, though regarding the latter I think it was a dealer factory order car, built April 79 registered June 79.

Andy Collins and Alan Cooper are the ones who might know what these codes are all about.

Boot lock…. Despite days soaked in fluids It didn’t want to play. So, on a trip to Boston for the last parts from Kevin I called in on Peter Stokes who kindly showed me how to dismantle the bugger. But up to me to put it back together again. He kindly donated some parts to help. So, after 3 days getting the Stratos replica ready for this weekends Malvern show I got back to it. Fiddly work and the only mistake was removing the key when I’d done one side to see if it still worked. Don’t do that, all the pins, buckets and springs just drop out the other side. 20 minutes later and it was all back together. And working. And the key worked in the glovebox lock I got from Kevin so now I have a full set of working locks with one key.

Must get back to the Beta next week. After the trip to see Mark! Despite what his website says the cancelled meet is on for anyone who pitches up! Please just don’t interrupt my shopping trip!
Guy

Last jobs for this week - Kit Car Show tomorrow in Malvern this weekend.

Brake master cylinder out after noting the routing of each of the 5 pipes followed by the four pipes as far as the flex is. They’re not going back in but every union and clip came off easily. Gear linkage fully out too. Gearbox mount undone, removed and put to one side, rack unbolted but put back in place whilst it’s on its wheels. The four 22mm bolts between the subframe and body also yielded to a little gentle persuasion. That’s the front end ready to be completely stripped and put on axle stands. Before that happens I need to repeat the the exercise for the rear end but as that’s just 8 suspension tower nuts, four crossmember nuts and a further four anti roll bar nuts it ought to be a shell at the end of the week after next. I need to get the car more centralised in the garage to help with this. Then it’s just stripping the door internals and B post latch and check for the last of the grommets and clips!

Sunroof has also been fully dismantled today, I’ve updated the removal thread (from 12 years ago) with what’s necessary so I won’t repeat that here.

Alfa packed with bits to go down to Mark the weekend after next too. Looking forward to that trip and meeting some new faces that I can put names to!

Have a great weekend everyone!
Guy

Sheared nut/bolt/screw count is now two. Rear exhaust hanger died when too much force was applied.

But on a positive note it’s now (almost) a shell. Do you like my new wheels?

Front bumper irons need to come off but that will have to wait until I can get a template for the front valance, it’s got a slight dent in the centre that needs coaxing out and checking with a bumper on it.

Next task is to tear down the subframes for easier storage and restoration.

Then book the shell to be stripped of paint/filler and de rusted! We’ll soon know exactly what I’ve got!
Guy

Done for the day. And this week. Off to Marks tomorrow for the Saturday gathering.

Front subframe stripped of it’s components. Most of the bolts still showing shiny cad plating! If it’s rubber it’s perished. Wishbones and subframe in good/fair condition and can be cleaned, blasted, treated and powder coated. Steering rack needs an overhaul and I need to look harder at the shocks - they’re the type with inserts which I’ll remove in due course and get the casings looked at to see if they’re reusable.

Really happy with progress today. Back to it next week I think?

Guy

Another week gone by and a trip down to see Mark and meet a few others and look at Betas! Andy’s S3 saloon is looking amazing. I took a shopping list with me and got a lot of smaller bits and pieces. A very dead VX Coupe in the scrap yard was spotted and with Mark’s approval the windscreen rubber was cut and the glass carefully removed. Then the dashboard was freed from it’s mounting points (3 on the bulkhead, one in the passenger footwell, one either side and two above the steering column) and surgery commenced with an angle grinder. And later a bit of violence with a chisel and lump hammer. A cut across the roof in front of the sunroof, another across the bulkhead and then through the A pillars. There’s now a repair panel to be used to take any cuts to replace the rusty areas on the shell.

Back to it today with cleaning 40 years oil and crud off the subframe, sadly only on the engine side. The gearbox side is still in excellent condition though. It’ll be going for shot blasting and powder coating soon along with wishbones, anti roll bars and the rear cross member. And anything else suitable.

As the car is now a shell I’ve made the call to the strippers who quoted a six week wait. So it’s being collected on 28th June. In two weeks! So I might have some major news on the real state of the bodywork towards the end of July! Watch this space!

Guy

Photos duly sorted…..

It will be interesting to see how good the bodywork is, given the work you have done already, I would not expect too many surprises unless there is some well hidden stuff going on.

Peter

I'm not stressing about it Peter - it'll be what it'll be and whatever is crumbly will be fixed properly! I don't intend having to do this again....

Photos stolen from the BetaBoyz facebook site of the aftermath of surgery... Not for the faint hearted!

On the plus side we might have created a new Beta model - the Landaulette - should anyone wish to restore it?

End of another week and a milestone reached. The shell and panels (including an extra door, bootlid and screen surround) are ready for collection a week on Wednesday. The front valance will need work when it comes back as there is some impact damage to it and the support struts. The pristine crossmember isn’t. It will need a patch repair to the front near side, corroded from the outside. Bugger.

All the suspension is fully dismantled, only one bolt was a struggle (lower one on the rear through the cross links) but it yielded to penetrating fluid, light sanding, bad language and some brute force. None of the shock absorbers feel worn and the chrome isn’t pitted. They might be okay. But I plan to replace them, shame not to do it at this point? Final job will be undoing the top caps and extracting the inserts. Need to make some tools for that job I think!

Weekend off. Or tidying up more like!

Guy

Extracting the inserts? Do you have replaceable or need to cut the tops off?

Peter

Guy, I've just spent quite a while reading this thread and had not appreciated how much of a similar situation we're in! Albeit your pace is higher than mine and yours will be rather nicer when done. My suspension and subframes are in their original functional but ugly state

They're the insert type at both ends Peter. Front tool looks easy to make, back requires a 50mm ring spanner ideally. Plus a further investment in a tin of release fluid! I've not dismantled this type before so I'm hoping that once the lockings/caps are removed it's a simple case of anchoring the strut casing and applying a slide hammer to a nut on the top of the strut...

Guy

Thanks Chris - I found a pair of door rods today, which side did you need? I can post on Monday. I guess being retired has it's advantages? I could just do with the income to finance the restoration! anyone looking at a Beta is going to be travelling the path we've chosen, not a lot of choice really! Luckily I'm really enjoying it so far! Hopefully I'll have a painted shell back in 3 months which gives me time to sort out the mechanical side of things ready for reassembly and do the trim over Winter?

Guy

I thought it might be rude to mention the retired aspect!

It's the left hand door I'm missing the rod for. Realise it's a tricky one to post but if it's possible I'd certainly appreciate it.

I saw in the early pages of this you had a parts needed list that had some bits on I know I've got spare. If you've got a current list let me know and see what I can reciprocate with

Edit - clarification on the rod, I'm talking about the one that goes from the lock mechanism forward to the interior pull handle, as opposed to the vertical push button one.

Hi Guy

The original replaceable strut inserts had a nut with 4 slots in it and needed a tool similar to the hub bearing tool, after market ones tend to have a large nut head which it sounds like some of them you have. Interesting that they are not original unless modified as replaceable strut/inserts were only used on the early cars, probably up to around 1977?

Peter

Hi Guy

The original replaceable strut inserts had a nut with 4 slots in it and needed a tool similar to the hub bearing tool, after market ones tend to have a large nut head which it sounds like some of them you have. Interesting that they are not original unless modified as replaceable strut/inserts were only used on the early cars, probably up to around 1977?

Peter
[/quote]

The fronts are the the ones with the 4 slots Peter, I've found some suitably heavy pipe to cut to suit, I may even be able to find a nylon insert to slide it over the rod without causing any damage, should help with alignment when a pipe wrench is applied! Rears have the 50mm castellated nut. I have a set (I think) of others from Kevin that I need to check to see what the tops look like, I wonder if the threads are the same? I think I prefer the castellated type.
Guy

35mm O/D pipe with a 3mm wall picked up off the scrap shelf and 4 pins marked on it and the excess material cut off, not the neatest job but it'll do. Found an old nylon suspension bush with a 30mm O/D and a step drill with a 30mm ledge and used that to cut the tube to the right I/D, just deep enough to allow the use of a mallet to to tap it into place. Then a 20mm step drill to match the bush I/D to the strut O/D.

First front strut in the vice, spring pan and strut end on the surface and a pipe wrench used on the tube, mallet to shock the nut loose after tapping out a slight ding either side (presumably factory to prevent the nut coming out). What I forgot about was that it was oil filled. Well most of that ended up on the top of the workbench and some in the drawer. Bugger.

I'll get to the second one on Monday.... I may have another go at making a second tool, the prongs are a little longer than ideal.

Guy

This week about done now. The car is ready for collection on Wednesday. The spare screen surround isn’t going on advice from the fabricator. It might dissolve too so he wants to keep it in shape for the profiles. Started work on the suspension and it’s all apart now. We’ll almost, I’ve still got three inner bearing races to remove from the two front and one rear hub carrier. I don’t have a tool to that yet but think it’s time, I don’t like grinding them off…. Shocks are fully dismantled are reusable with new inserts. Front locknuts needed the fork type tool making which worked a treat. The rears needed putting into a solidly mounted vice and an adjustable pipe wrench did the trick. All now ready for shot blasting and powder coating. Shopping list now has four bearings, two front lock rings and one rear lock ring n it! Why are they different sizes? Must be a reason!

Hi Guy

The rear bearing inner race removal is easy if you use the two holes in the casting which allows you to put a punch into it and push the race off.

The fronts, I did cut them down and used a chisel to then split them.

Peter

Thanks once again Peter - you're a mine of information! One of the rear inner races came off with the bearing but the other is still in situ, I'll have a look for the drift holes tomorrow, I'm sure it'll pop off easily enough. One front wheel bearing/steering arm and one rear hub cleaned up this afternoon with a wire brush on a drill. I'll treat them both to a quick coat of rust converter to kill anything that forms over the weekend and then a coat of paint or two. Probably red oxide and then a satin black rattle can, avoiding any bearing surfaces and threads. The brake dust shields are a little more fragile but the same treatment should work okay, I'll consider having them powder coated instead of painting them. Just a few dents to straighten. New bearings to press in and new lock rings and it'll be ready to go on the shelf for the rebuild.

Guy

Wire wheels on the drill and the stub axles/hub carriers are starting to look better! Ready for a coat or two of paint as soon as the shell makes space. That’ll be tomorrow then 👍

Impressive work on a job I have always used the Sandblaster for after masking the bearing surfaces with tank tape.

If they are before rust treatment which they look like, very impressive, mine are not as clean as that after the wire wheel has done it’s job.

I have to say it is one very mucky job, necessary but not my most enjoyable bit of the restoration. The end result is however worth the effort.

Peter

Photos are just after wire wheeling a front and rear with it's pair for comparison to show what I started with. All four are done now, it's not a fun job but satisfying when they all come out okay. They'll get a Ku-Rust coat to kill anything lurking followed by a coat of Nitromors Red Oxide and then Nitromors Satin Black to finish off. A few weeks in a box fully curing will be followed by new bearings being pressed, lock rings fitted and new bushes ready for reassembly. I've yet to tackle the rear brake backplates but i hope they'll come up okay. I did briefly consider consigning them to the box for shot blasting and powder coating but I think that might be a little too harsh on thin steel. If it fails in years to come it'll be a localised repair, I'm not going to destroy a new bearing and locking to get them off again!
Guy

Hi Guy

If you treat them then I would imagine they will probably outlast both you and me….. after all they have lasted 40 years without being as well looked after.

Peter

Very impressed with the finish on those parts. Is that achieved solely by using a wire wheel on a drill or grinder? My only concern with using the wire wheel (apart from pieces of wire flying off) is that it tends to polish the surface, which means that paint or primer doesn't adhere as well as it could. When I refurbished the uprights that Peter kindly provided I degreased them, then had them blasted, then took them to my local platers for black phosphate treatment. This is a genuine surface treatment in that it doesn't increase the dimensions of the part, but actually sinks into the surface. These are the parts that are still waiting patiently to be fitted:

Just a wire wheel or ten on a drill. I’m comfortable with the treatment they’ll get, they’re in better condition now than when I got them.

In other news. Shell and panels were collected today.

Hi Graham

You are probably correct, but as Guy says this technique is good enough for me, ie I can get on no do it myself and this car is costing way too much already…! The rust treatment I am using also acts as a primer so has some interaction with the metal from what I understand, though time will tell how effective it is.

I think some protection is better than none and as mentioned above, these parts will outlast me so happy with carrying on.

Peter

Help? Amongst spares I’ve collected were the pictured brackets and…. I haven’t got a clue if they’re Beta Coupe or not! There was nothing like them removed from the shell by me but given the car was incomplete when bought they may be needed!

Top right has a clip on the back that may take a rubber strap? Maybe something to support the jack?

Guy

Guy,

If it was me I'd get them blasted and re-plated while I was figuring out what they might be for.

Graham

Top right might be the cover for the top of a jack?

Thanks Neil - my jack came from 2 sources the missing top was a piece of plastic and looked nothing like this bit. Might it be a bracket to hold the jack? Don't know! I also got some Fulvia and Fiat 131 parts mixed in with the bits I've acquired so these may all be wild goose chases!

Right, more for the Wire Wheeling Weirdoes out there (I’m going off it now)….

One rear strut top mount ready for a quick coat of rust converter and paint. The stub axles and backing plates are done boxed up now until reassembly starts.

Guy

I hear your boredom, it seems like a never ending job, the reward is the finished painted item free of oil and dirt and you can handle it without having to wash your hands…..

Peter

Ho hum. Wire Wheeling play stopped by dead drill. Half a front lower top mount done. Second one isn’t pretty and I may opt to replace it once I’ve had a go at it. The two rear top mounts are slowly curing after rust converter, primer and topcoats. Happy with them.
Guy

And in the post yesterday/today were the tools from Chris (VXMan - lock ring and camshaft shim tool) to fit the lock rings front and rear. Two fronts and a rear were in stock and another front and rear arrived today. The Stratos also uses the Beta front lock ring so spares stock is replenished!
Guy

Right, I’m not liking the condition of one of the front suspension parts. The lower half of the top mount which the spring sits on. The steel is looking very corroded and the edges are splitting/separating. It’s obviously weaker than it should be after an hour with wire brushes and a power file so I think this one needs replacing. Unless you lot think otherwise? Anyway, shout out time! Does anyone have a spare one in good condition or a lead to a new one? Or two new ones?

A bit on the ropey side. Do not forget to take the bearing plate out of the centre.

Peter

I've always found that cleaning up rusty parts (once they've been degreased) is normally best done by immersing said rusty part(s) in a solution of citric acid. It will convert what rust it can into a stable compound and provides an excellent base for plating. Citric acid in crystal form is readily available for cheap on ebay and I either use it in an ultrasonic cleaner to clean up bolts and small parts or in a plastic tank for larger parts.

Thanks to Peter there’s a top mount on the way. Hero!
Head scratching today, so much to do and I didn’t fancy more drill work so I thought I’d have a go at the rubber steering rack inner arm shrouds. One down one to go. Scraped the worst of the crud off, washed with a scrubbing brush then a mixture of solvents (petrol and WD40) and some rubber treatment.
I’ll do the other one tomorrow. It’s come up quite soft after all that work and should last a while!
Guy

Yes, the rubber items can be brought back well so long as they are not ripped. One thing is the rubber fixings, I used the plastic fir tree fixings on the Spider, but if you can find them use rubber ones, much more pliable and less chance of damaging the metalwork.

Peter

Thanks for the tip Peter - I've got a full set of 8 of the correct rubber clips! Really pleased with the way the first one turned out. I'll do the other one tomorrow and then think about tearing down the steering rack if I can clear the table! I've got the overhaul kit from Mark.

Another alternative fixing method is to
use plastic number plate screws and nuts which we
used to do when we couldn't get the rubber things.

A bit fiddly though!

Nigel

Nice idea Nigel, did not think of that.

Peter

If I were going with Nigel's suggestion I'd modify it slightly by fitting a rivnut with a suitable plastic screw. I had a look at the two cleaned up boots and noted that two of the rubber trees are down to single barbs. They ought to hold but may not be so easy to pull through. I'll have a look through the box of spares to see if I picked any odd ones on my travels...

Steering arm inner shrouds eh.. so that explains what these mystery bits of rubber are amongst the box of bits I got back. I presume they are meant to be somewhere suitably awkward to access at the back of the engine?

Hi Chris

You install them from the wheel wells but need te steering ball joints disconnected to fit them

Peter

Lights.

Rear lights. Aaargh. I got a car with a mixed bag of Altissimo and Siem units and guess what, the parts aren't interchangeable! But I guess you already knew that. So, best left frame is an Altissimo but the best body is Siem and the best backing is Altissimo. There's a decent right Altissimo body with a good frame but the lenses are badly scratched. One of the frames uses fixing screws and comes apart fairly easily (Altissimo) and the other has proper bolts and they are a fine thread that seems reluctant to undo. So, I think I'm going to go with the best pair of Altissimo frames and bases with a little repair work where needed for the fixing studs. I should be able to cobble a pair together but may have to source a couple of clean, unscratched/uncracked lenses.

Front lights. AAAAARGH. Car came with the Carello lights with the nice housings/covers. One further, careful inspection they're crap. No, not that good. And one headlight is for a LHD car. I seem to have a variety of spares so I think I'll end up with a set of Siem lights on the front. I've got a set of fair condition inners (12300) and one good outer and one outer with corrosion in the reflector (12270) that will probably do for now. There's one brand new 12300 inner light in my spares (and that's easily available new as it's an Alfa Sud part). If anyone has a source for the outer RHD Siem headlights can you point me in that direction please?

Trim rings - the Siem ones look like they're stainless steel but the Carello ones are chromed steel. I'm not sure I could put together a good set of those which is a shame as the backing plates require little/no work bar cleaning.

The boxes of spares/refurbed parts continues to grow and extra spares are now being consigned to the garden shed for future cleaning/refurb. That's making space on the shelves for more stuff! The list grows!

And, on other news, the date for the return of the bare steel shell is set - Thursday 20th July, we'll know what we're fixing then!

Guy

To answer your question on the thread on making a mix and match 'am i going to be the next poor sod to discover this', it looks like the answer is yes :)

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=872.msg35286#msg35286 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=872.msg35286#msg35286)

Hi

When I get back from France in August, will have a look on the Coupe to see if any are useable.

Peter

Thanks Peter, an afternoon tinkering I have managed to clean overspray and crud off a full set of Siem lenses, and some polishing has resulted is a set great condition. I also have two Siem frames in very very usable condition (one has a very slight dent) and all screw holes free.

There are two Siem bodies too, well four. Two had heavily corroded fixing bolts button splits so I decided to remove all the studs with a drill. The other pair have damage to the plastic in a few places so are consigned to the spares box. The circuit boards/backing plates will probably need a new fixing method as I don't think I've got a pair with clips. I'm thinking a simple rubber strap will sort that out. I'll deal with the electrical connections when I get to the wiring!

The Altissimo lights are all not consigned to the emergency spares and/or give away to anyone who needs them pile.

The quality of the Siem lights seems much better than the Altissimo ones, the frames especially appear to corrode and bubble much more easily!

Final tasks for the rear lights will be a thorough degrease, clean and some new silver paint on the reflectors, a pair of BAY15D bulb holder for the reversing lights to fit a set of LED red/white bulbs so I have brighter reversing lights and twin foglights with nothing ugly below the bumper! And a set of stainless steel studs. Then box until re-assembly starts.

Guy

A lot of work has gone into the rear lights over the last week or so. And is still ongoing with the casing for the right one but the left is fully assembled now.
The casing has been stripped down completely, you can see the faded finish on the first picture. This was rubbed down, etch primed, gloss black (second photo per paint instructions) and then chrome painted per the last picture with an original for comparison.
All the corroded mounting studs were drilled out carefully and replaced with stainless steel bolts/nuts.

Next step was to cut an aluminium plate out of some 2.5mm stock I had to fit the back of the light.. I’ve decided not to fit the standard back panels carrying the circuit board and bulbs. Once the plate was cut to a rough shape it was trimmed to an interference fit with a power file. This allowed me to drop a socket through the housing to determine the bulb centres, mark them and cut with a step drill. Next, some twist lock bulb holders wire dropped in, tags marked and hand filed. Grommet holes then drilled to route the wiring back into the housing. It’ll be wired internally and either exit in the usual spot or via a separate socket in the backplate or lamp body. To be finalised when I deal with the wiring later.

Painted the back of the plate so it looks a bit tidier. And less scratched after a bit of sanding! Fitted the grommets, bulb holders and LED bulbs.

Coat of paint on the rubber seal per factory and reassemble, all screws having a coating of copper grease! We’ll pleased with the result. Just a slight shame about the small dent in the frame but there was nothing I could do about that. Maybe I’ll find a better condition Siem frame one day?

And, in anticipation of the why?

Standard Beta Coupe rear lights have four single filament bulbs. I’ve ended up with three double contact BAY15D and one single holder. Instead of one sidelight in the outer position and one brake light on the inner position I’ll have a pair in each position either side of the reflector. The indicators are single function and the reverse light now doubles up as a fog light. So nothing hanging off the bumper looking out of place.

Plus the chrome paint should be a little more reflective and the LEDs a little brighter.

Guy

Hi Guy

Beautiful work.

I was just wondering if a white fog light to the rear is legal? I thought the rules dictate this must be red to the rear? Obviously with historic status MOTs are optional but I have ended up putting my historic status Montecarlo through an MOT for proof of roadworthy status and so AA European recovery would not refuse to recover the car on my recent trip to Classic Le Mans.

Eric

Dual colour LEDs Eric. White for reverse and red for fog. The red light takes precedence over the white. Ti be 100% legal I need a latching relay so I can’t leave the fogs on the next time I get into the car. Only question is whether the fog light is too close to a brake light…. I’ll leave that to the MOT man!

I just had my MOT and on a 79 plate it was unclear if fog lights were required or not as that's when the law changed. So I did a quick VOSA check and spotted there might be another condition for your switching ...

"A rear fog lamp must: only illuminate when dip, main or front fog lamps are lit"

There's a cut off date for fog lights. 1978 you don't need them (Stratos gets away without them) 1979 (some date?) you need one on the offside. Although I think you can get away with one centrally mounted one. Somewhere in the back of my mind I think there's a "construction and use" rule about the spacing of foglights. Wiring is straight forward, relay power supply has to come via the light circuit. The current rules are slightly different, when the foglight is switched on they must not re-illuminate after the ignition is switched and back on until the switch is pressed again. Not that I anticipate using the car in fog.

Guy

Shell is back. Not unexpectedly the screen surround was rough. The donor surround will supply some cuts but it’s going to need some fabrication. A new roof panel without sunroof would be ideal but I doubt there’s one available.
Floorpan looks great with a minor repair being needed on one jacking point. Rear arches have had repairs and filler which isn’t surprising but wasn’t expected. Minor repairs needed to both front inner and outer wings. Sills not as bad as I thought but will need new metal in places. Rear turrets slightly worse than expected and some holes in the B pillar. Boot and bonnet (bar the pin holes cut into it) are mint. Petrol flap a waste of time but there’s a new one to fit. Rear panel is horrible. Ideally I need a new one if anyone has a lead for a reasonably priced one I’d appreciate it! Pictures to follow.

Guy

In no particular order!

Screen and inner wing top

Front crossmember and left sill/B post

Rear panel, both sides. Not pretty! Anyone got anything better or a lead for a new one?

Tops of the B posts. Bugger. Rear arch too.

Left sill and rear arch

Left sill - dented and slight crease and left front inner arch.

Floorpan and boot floor - superb!

Floorpan and front bulkhead

Mint bonnet but rally pin holes need plating. Why why why! Easier for a previous owner to do than fix the release cables! Muppets.

Rear turrets. Not as bad as feared. Seen lots worse!

Front crossmember, outer skin in one spot gone. Unexpected as it’s perfect everywhere else but knew it was there after the valance came off.
Floorpan had a spot I wasn’t expecting. Hey ho.

I didn’t get a good look at the doors but two will be easily repaired, one will be spare. No pics of the boot lids but both usable. I need to bring one home to fit a HiFi spoiler to.

Unfortunately time on the Beta is going to be limited for the next week - Geoff is off to Italy next week. Told him to bring a rear panel back with him.

Parts refurb had ground to a stop. The Pandas back axle broke one of its spring pans yesterday so I’ve got to strip that out and repair/replace and the Alfa needs a new rear wheel bearing or two doing. Good job I’ve got the Stratos replica to fall back on! Newark kit car show this weekend and the Lancia AGM the Sunday after!
Guy

Life is getting in the way with Hawk Cars at the moment so updates and progress will be slower than hoped! The fabricator has been working on it, I hope to see it Friday or Saturday before the BetaMeeta do! Unfortunately he has said that the screen surround "rescued" from the VX Coupe at Mark's is in a terrible state and won't supply any repair cuts. However it is giving him dimensions an profiles to work from so it wasn't a waste of time removing it!
Guy

Well things at Hawk cars really are delaying progress for me. Just got back after 11 days down there. Went to see some progress on the shell. The outer skin of the left side pillar has gone and the inner steel cut out and replaced. The top of the near side inner wing has also been repaired beautifully. The spare screen surround is being used to build up repair panels which are then going to be cut out and grafted into the shell. Progress is slow as Geoff gets other work that pays better on a daily basis!

Hi Guy

Glad to see the progress, now if only I could get my guy to actually start on the HPE that would be a bonus.

Peter

Not sure why but I can only see some of those if I download them.   Good to see someone else grappling with rust though! Fascinating the different places the coupes go compared to the Spider.

Popped over to see the car for the first time in a month today. Twice. I'll get to that...

I've been tangled up with Hawk Cars for the last 6 weeks since Gerry had an accident in the workshop resulting in a 6 week stay in hospital. This means I'm spending at least a week a month down South helping out. It's been traumatic.

So yesterday I got a message asking for the front screen as Geoff was rebuilding the steel around the aperture. The pillars are three layers of steel, the lower one was okay, the middle not great and the outer skin scrap. The inner has been replaced now and the VX one I retrieved from Marks is being used to provide a repair section. Except for the two lower corners which are having to be fabricated. I got there to see the work with the screen and the surround in the Alfa and it was immediately obvious that the profile Geoff did wasn't quite right, too tight. So the plan is now to remove the remains of the original scuttle and stitch the new one in so it can be done in situ.

I'd just grabbed the stainless screen surround and gone over with it. But it didn't seem to fit very well. It wasn't until I got home I realised I had two sets and I'd mixed them up. And they're different profiles!!!!!! The original is wider by 5 or 6mm with a crease in a slightly different place.  So back to Geoffs with the (correct) other half, offered it up and it's a much better fit. It just confirms that the corners need redoing but the positive is that Geoff now has the correct profile to work to.

Should have taken some pictures for comparison and I'll do that next time I have them together to show the differences. Anyone seen this before? Wish I could remember where I got the thinner profile from! Probably Kevin Plowman...

Guy

Another chance to go see the progress was taken yesterday! There are pictures of the state of the screen surround earlier in the thread. Plus the VX donor cut that wasn’t much better. Anyhoo, Geoff has almost finished this area off. The entire outer skin from side to side plus an inch back from the top of the screen was removed. Then the inner skin removed and replaced. The replacement screen surround was made up, full screen perimeter and joined to the existing forward edge of the scuttle. Then it was welded in. Screen offered up which highlighted an issue in the corners that was resolved with a bit of further work with the stainless surround as a guide. Just a bit of lead loading to do for perfection. And then onto the next grotspot.

Hi Guy

Hope you do not mind, I rotated the photos as I could not get my head around them at the odd orientation.

Looking good, I guess he has some free time!

Peter

Thanks Peter!

Going to visit the shell tomorrow but not expecting huge progress. I had a delivery today after an anxious wait of 4-5 weeks. Luckily customs didn’t nab it and it survived shipping without any major damage. After the windscreen surround this was the worst panel on the car.

Hi Guy

Glad you found one and no customs charges, full result.

Peter

Like me bringing back an HPE rear 3/4 from Belgium on the ferry and trying to look innocent as I drive through customs. One of the benefits of an anonymous small saloon, you don't look too much like a smuggler.

It's a few years (and pre Brexit) when we moved Andrea from Germany to the UK via Rotterdam in a LWB Mercedes Sprinter and went through the nothing to declare channel. Naturally we got pulled over and got asked about cigarettes & alcohol. Since neither of us smoke and Andrea doesn't drink the answer was none. They didn't believe us but didn't look any further than the side and rear doors from where they could see all her worldly goods.
Except the Ford Escort she'd driven across in a few weeks earlier that had all the contraband. Well, a couple of crates of beer and a few bottles of wine, within our limits at the time.
These days it's probably not worth the hassle of getting caught... M'lud.

Guy

Minor progress, the fabricator is busy with other stuff running in parallel!

But the small grotspot on the front crossmember and the top surface of the left sill/B post and wing had been fixed. Properly.

And on a worse note, we scraped off the sealant on the outside top edge of the rear turrets to find the steel on the inner wing above was AWOL. More fabricating to be done.

The next task will be to chop out the rear panel and stitch in the new one in. Then it can come off the lift and go onto a spit for better access.

Progress is slow but there is progress!

Guy

Well done Guy for making it happen!

You'll still probably be done before mine :)

Back panel cut out… the panel underneath that needs work too. The outer skin is excellent, it’s the inner skin that’s been eaten oddly. The left side had a few patches and whilst the right side will need work too, across the rear edge, it gives Geoff a pattern to duplicate the repair panel to.

More progress since Christmas! After the rear panel was removed Geoff could get at the top of the lower panel which looked like this after a couple of patches were removed. He's cut away all the rot, fabricated a new upper panel for this box section, hoovered out all the flakes of rust and welded the repair panel in.

The new rear panel has been checked for fit and it's perfect. One corner needs bending straight (lower right) but that's it. It will be welded in once Geoff has repaired the suspension turrets as access is much easier without it in the way.

Once they're done the panel will be welded back in place and the shell put onto a spit which will make the repairs to the inner and outer rear wings much more straight forward before he moves onto the sills, sunroof cassette and rear window surround. Once the shell is done there are repairs to be done to the bonnet and both doors.

Guy

The rear panel has 6 square holes around the pressing in the centre. I assume that they're for number plate fixings but I'm in two minds about whether to leave them like that or have them welded up. Anyone got any thoughts?

6 seems excessive when a couple + adhesive double sided pads will suffice for the number plate, or just the pads?

Good progress, nice to see.

Peter

Just Pads for the number plate. Why risk holes that might chip with plastic inserts going in and rust.

My thoughts too. Six more holes to weld up then!

I've been dismantling parts ready to take for shot blasting and powder coating, subframes and suspension components mainly and I've had a look at the rear transverse arms along with some spare I have acquired over the last year. All the adjustable ones look to be in great condition with minimal surface corrosion and all broke down into component for easily. I'll be replacing the bushes with Mark's poly ones. Given that powder coating is likely to fill the threads I'll do one set with a wire wheel, rust converter and a few coats of paint as an alternative.

The pressed ones are a different matter and have suffered heavier corrosion but are still perfectly usable. I've removed all the bushes in preparation for installing poly bushes here too but looking at the three I have I noted that the pair that came off the car have probably got some damage. On examination they both exhibited a bit of twist at the outer end when placed back to back. Easily cured in the vice with a an adjustable wrench. They then matched the third one I have with no twist along the length. There is a sign of a little more damage though not exhibited by the third one, a very very slight downward bend to the outer ends. I assume this is as a result of someone jacking the car at/near the hub/ARB.

I don't think this is critical to the geometry and I'm not sure if I should attempt to unbend them, it'll take more force than the marginal twist they had to straighten them.

What's the perceived wisdom of this forum and does anyone have a spare pressed arm they'd part with so I can get two sets powder coated at the same time?

Guy

Hi Guy

Go with 4 adjustable rear links ditching the weak pressed items. This gives you more options for suspension set up including camber and they are much stronger. You will notice the Integrale has 4 adjustable links. Keep your straightest pressed link as a dimension template. This is what I have done.

Eric

Thanks Eric, Peter is sending me a spare pressed one so i'll have 2 pairs to have powder coated. I've stripped two pairs of adjustable ones down and cleaned one pair up to paint so far. I think I'll do the other pair that way too and not powder coat as that would clog threads and cutting them again would destroy the integrity of the surface bond and lead to corrosion again. Plus I'm not sure what the pitch thread is and buying two more taps to clean them up doesn't appeal! Know my luck I'd run the left hand thread down the right hand end....

I think I'll need to order two more pairs of bush kits from Mark for the adjustable ones.... Good to have options though!

Guy

Nest question - front wishbone, I've removed the inner bushes ready to get them shot blasted and powder coated and poly bushed with Mark's kit when it all comes back. But, have I left part of the bush in situ and does it need to come out or should it remain in place for the poly bushes?
Cheers
Guy

Hi Guy

According to Mark’s site you leave the metal part of the old bush in as the bushes supplied are just PU, no metal outer unlike the originals. This should be no great hardship as those outers are usually ‘welded’ in place…..

Peter

Not a view I was expecting to see today....

The braces are good to see. They are taking no chances.

Geoff is a professional - I trust him 110% with anything car related, he's saved the Stratos once already!

I'm not certain how he's attached the back yet, he was lacking about the for fuel tank mounting bolts, the chassis there is rock solid fortunately.  I think he's planning on some serious time on it over the next two to three week, And I've just jinxed that...

Off to see it on Tuesday I think!

Guy

Work is progressing on the nearside quarter. The paint stripping uncovered a horrible patch repair buried in filler as you can see. The cill was perforated underneath B post which was opened up and the inner membrane replaced and is now fully repaired. The inner arch to outer arch panel wasn't pretty either as you can see... Both have now been repaired and Geoff is moving on to the next grot spot.

And the next Grot Spot is a biggie. The nearside rear suspension turret. The top of this is mint but the bottom where it attaches to the lower chassis member, well, like a lot, it wasn't really attached by anything other than a few layers of crusty oxide.... The lower outer skin was tapped to see how bad it was and it was bad so surgery started. Open it up and see how bad it really is..

And keep going....

The inner chassis member was sound, th grot was working it's way in from between the inner skin and the base of the turret. With the rot cut out a new inner skin was shaped and fitted and then the lower half of the turret reconstructed in the correct gauge steel to the original pattern.

Proper job.

And a big box of special bolts, brackets and doodads dropped off this morning for plating! Hope to get them back the week after next and drop the next lot off for zinc plating!

This inner rear turret area is almost a standard Beta repair because of that recess section note being properly sealed helping rust eat away inside to out. I had this one done on mine as well.

My precious  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Got to love shinny plated bits. I have done this at the full crate of nuts bolts and every thing else I had been hording for years. It took days to sort it out, but has been fantastic in building the Beta Spyder and fixing the Monte.

Just never do it on 12.9 blacked fastenings like cam bolts or sprung dome washers. They become brittle leading to expensive failures. I still threw away many shiny bits that failed the fit to use test.

Eric
PS it seemed to cost the same for a crate full as a small box of bits.   

The second batch of plated bits collected today and pretty happy with the result. The only failure was the boot latch mechanism which didn't plate for some reason, I'll have to find out why on the next visit but I have a spare one just in case!

I was assured that the plating process wouldn't damage the plastic/nylon bushes in the wiper rack so didn't bother to remove the rivets and they were right, it all survived. So, next job is to finish dismantling and cleaning the steering rack then reassemble with new bushes assuming there's no discernible wear or damage (or plateable parts!) and put the wiper rack back together once I've found the bag of related bits. It won't be far from the bench!

Guy

More progress. The left rear turret and inner arches were completed today, all that remains is tidying up excess weld inside the car and Geoff can move onto the other side. Last job on this side was cutting out the rear jacking point which was sitting on a sunken sill as the welded edge was rotten/missing. Inside the box section it's all solid and a decision has been made to construct an internal tower to further strengthen this area before it's closed off once more. We might revisit the front ones before he's done.

Nearside done now bar filling in the aerial hole! The rear suspension turret and box sections are as good as new, the outer inner arch has been cut out and the corrosion underneath removed and all rebuild with repairs to the lip of the arch as necessary. The sill on that side is back to full strength and the floorpan corrosion dealt with, jacking point straightened and the two lift points cut out, strengthen and reinstated. A small dent in the sill has also been fixed. Work has started on the offside rear arch and turret. Now Geoff knows the issues I'm hoping the repairs will be easier for him. Once that's done it's the sill on that side, stitch in the new rear panel and flip it back over so the roof can be worked on. And that will be the shell done. Minor bonnet repairs plus doors and botlid and it'll be ready to be dipped again ready for .... paint!

So I thought I'd better get on with some bits... The steering rack is now done except for the new bracket for the shock absorber and oil. That ought to be finished in the next couple of weeks once the bracket is welded, plated and painted.

The fuel tank has been in the garden shed since last Summer. It was drained of 20 litres of stale fuel and force vented for 30 minutes by attaching the filler pipe to the exhaust of the Alfa 159. Nothing left in there. So, dragged it out of the shed to assess what it needs. The bottom of the tank was covered in underseal and rust proofing spray. It had suffered a bit over the years and failed where it had been scraped so needed looking at. It started looking like this...

And after a lot of scraping with a body filler spreader and treatment of the remaining paint with Nitromors to soften it up, more scraping and then a few hours with a wire brush this was the result...

Next week I might be able to spend some time working on the top surface. Which doesn't have any underseal or much rustproofing fluid on it and isn't nearly as pretty... I'm pretty sure that it'll be sound though, there are no pinholes in it. Yet. But it's possible that some wire brushing and paint removal may identify any areas of concern.. The welded flange around the middle of the tank is sound so I'm reasonably confident it's okay. The inside of the tank is showing surface corrosion unsurprisingly. There's a lot of dust coming out of it at the moment so that'll get hoovered out. Next test will be to block the inlet pipe and all the fuel lines and pressurise the tank to see if there's any evidence of leaks, find them and fix them before treating the inside of the tank with POR15 tank sealer to effectively put an internal surface in the tank onto a rust free surface. And then POR15 semi gloss black paint to the outside surfaces, fit the new sender and seal and put it on the shelf ready to be refitted.

Progress continues!

Well done!

Looking good you should be well on this year with getting it back together

Peter

Guy,
Just after you've used the tank sealer, I suggest that you blow
through all the pipework, especially the small vent tube/s,
for obvious reasons!

Good luck, excellent progress,

Cheers
Nigel

And grease the fuel sender mount 'floating' ring thingy and tape/grease the studs before you put the sealer in - ask me how I know...........

Mark

Thanks for the tips Mark & Nigel - I was planning on walking into the Frost Restorations warehouse with the fuel tank to ask about the likelyhood of fuel line blockages. I had planned on blocking the filler pipe and float sender holes with a cork bung from a beer maker with a rubber glove to give a good seal whilst the goop gets sloshed around. I hadn't considered that it might be able to find the threads on the sender ring though so great tip. I'll see if I can find a can of compressed air to clear the small lines once treated though, great tip!

Won't be happening for a week or so though, away from Friday and still got half the top surface and sides to clear of corrosion which may be covering/finding pinholes soon.
Guy