Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: peteracs on September 16, 2021, 03:48:23 PM



Title: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on September 16, 2021, 03:48:23 PM
Hi All

As the Spider is almost finished except for a few 'shakedown' issues I was aiming to start work on the engine rebuild I started a thread on a while ago, but....

I was talking with Tony at the recent Betameeta and it transpired the early HPE which I knew his boss, Rob, had bought some time ago was going to be up for sale as they were selling off their restoration projects. This was a car which had been highlighted on here many years ago, originally owned by Mark M. See the following for details of it first being offered here.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2386.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2386.0)

Given I have always fancied getting an early car similar to the one I had in 1980 for a time, a deal was done and it arrived last night.

So the engine will have to take a back seat for now as I need to crack one with getting this ready for the bodywork to be done. My plan is to run the Spider for the next year or so whilst getting the HPE on the road, then most likely sell the Spider and separately sell the Saab once I have no more need of it and just leave me with the HPE which will be a far more practical car for my wife to go in as she uses a wheelchair which is not that practical in the Spider......

I do expect plenty of bumps along the road as the body will be hiding some horrors as well as the ones I can already see. So far found one mouse nest under the back seats...

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on September 16, 2021, 10:12:00 PM
Hi Peter,
Doesn't it sit so perfectly in your garage with the Spider.

I hope it's still in as good, at least in appearance, as when those photos were
taken some 8 years ago. Those rear seat bolsters, so good, they're still there I hope.

I saw that thread when first published, and had I be living where I do now, I'd have
bought it! Having said that, I'm glad you've got it as you'll no doubt give it everything
it deserves.

Best wishes,
Nigel


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on September 16, 2021, 11:43:18 PM
Hi Nigel

The picture truly flatters it. In reality a full restore is required, plenty of filler in places. There will be a debate if a full body strip will be the best way to go. The good news is that it is pretty complete just in need of a lot of love and money spending on it…..

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on September 17, 2021, 09:23:49 AM
Nice colour and love the flat bonnet. It's in the right place now to get all the attention it needs.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: smithymc on September 18, 2021, 10:46:40 AM
Looks very much at home.

Mark


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on September 18, 2021, 11:22:36 AM
Nice colour and love the flat bonnet. It's in the right place now to get all the attention it needs.

Hi Neil

The eventual colour is currently a hot debate topic. Personally I like some form of blue, but the question then is what colour interior to go with the brown dash etc?

This will go on for some time before a decision is made.

All tucked up for the next few weeks as off the France. Getting to feel a bit like normal, hopefully this will carry on.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Sandro on September 18, 2021, 06:12:17 PM
Hi Peter,
Doesn't it sit so perfectly in your garage with the Spider.

I hope it's still in as good, at least in appearance, as when those photos were
taken some 8 years ago. Those rear seat bolsters, so good, they're still there I hope.

I saw that thread when first published, and had I be living where I do now, I'd have
bought it! Having said that, I'm glad you've got it as you'll no doubt give it everything
it deserves.

Best wishes,
Nigel


couldnt agree more, they look great together!

I like the blue too btw  ;)

Best Andrew



Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on October 01, 2021, 12:36:58 PM
Hi

Whilst away in France all we can do is debate colours, which is going to take a long time I think to come to a conclusion.

The complication is the brown interior and the suitably toning seats etc. I always liked the mustard colour seats, but they will probably have something similarly bright, but will be leather trimmed, the Spider seats were a good result.

The outside, my starter for 10 is some sort of burnt orange, I am determined it is not going to be a black/white/grey. I quite like this BMW colour, not sure about modern metallic on older cars however. Comments welcome………

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on October 01, 2021, 11:13:33 PM
Hi Peter,
My first Beta, a Coupe, had the same interior as yours. I still love the mustard
seat upholstery, and would, if ever it happens redo in a yellow leather.
This old 76 Coupe was in Lancia Blu, which complimented the interior quite well.
I painted a yellow pin-stripe along the swage line as an additional nod.

A sign spotted in a hardware store in Jhb [ c.1983] :
"Husbands choosing paint colours must bring note from wife" 

Enjoy the holiday,
Nigel


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on October 02, 2021, 11:31:15 AM
Hi Nigel

The seat colours will be an interesting choice. The colour above is via the wife, and final sign off will be via her as I am spending OUR money on this……

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: lanciamad on October 03, 2021, 07:10:48 PM
Hi

Whilst away in France all we can do is debate colours, which is going to take a long time I think to come to a conclusion.

The complication is the brown interior and the suitably toning seats etc. I always liked the mustard colour seats, but they will probably have something similarly bright, but will be leather trimmed, the Spider seats were a good result.

The outside, my starter for 10 is some sort of burnt orange, I am determined it is not going to be a black/white/grey. I quite like this BMW colour, not sure about modern metallic on older cars however. Comments welcome………

Peter


I remember seeing a spyder in a similar colour, although not original I think it suits it well  :)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/albums/72157594162784979 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/albums/72157594162784979)


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on October 03, 2021, 10:04:08 PM
Hi Marcus

Thanks, this one posted by Stuart in another thread is a little darker and is looking to be a front runner for now at least.

Colour is Rosso Brighton apparently.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: frankxhv773t on October 04, 2021, 09:43:50 AM
You needn't be too far from original with a metallic brown as this picture from my stash shows. It even has the mustard interior, though I think a warmer shade of metallic brown, as illustrated on the Spider, is more pleasing to the eye.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: frankxhv773t on October 04, 2021, 09:53:57 AM
On lanciamad's link I think the intrgrale wheels really suit the metalic brown better than original Beta ones. Picture credit to Tony Harrison.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on October 04, 2021, 10:36:51 AM
Hi Frank

Thanks, the last one is a bit too orange and brown is not in the running. I hope to get an actual sample of the Rosso Brighton as the colour on screen can be quite misleading.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: WestonE on October 04, 2021, 04:07:58 PM
That last one is Mark Milne's car and it looks fantastic in the real world.

Eric


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Clifford on October 04, 2021, 06:28:52 PM
Indeed it does Eric. I remember telling him if he ever wanted to sell then let me know. 😊
That's my car next to it I think and seem to remember it was Autoitalia at Stanford Hall, quite a few years ago now.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on November 23, 2021, 11:31:52 PM
Had a productive afternoon stripping out the rear of the HPE (photo to follow!). Thankfully most things came out without too much persuasion. The one surprise was the rear side windows which hinge at the front. Both are completely rotten on the lower edge, however the main body next to them is pretty well untouched which is a relief.

So anyone have any HPE rear side windows available? The glass and trim on mine are good, just need some decent frames.

So far, albeit not got that far, the bodywork appears not too bad in the main cabin. The front inner wings are shot, but that is to be expected. The rear turret on one side has obviously had work previously and appears solid. All in all quite encouraged.

I have also started buying some parts which will probably not be used for some significant time, but you can never be sure if you will find them again or have to pay silly money in the future. So far have bought new discs, engine mounts and some trim parts.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: frankxhv773t on November 24, 2021, 12:28:34 PM
I had a similar experience with rear side windows on a coupe. I found that the ones which rotted had a stainless steel outer cover over a mild steel frame, hence the rot, but the ones from my spares car had completely stainless steel frames. I wonder if the same might be true for HPEs.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on November 24, 2021, 01:17:40 PM
Hi Frank

Interesting, I will see what offers I get and if any are stainless.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 02, 2021, 11:40:59 PM
Nothing to report on the rear side windows yet, but have learnt that there are two styles of window used (thanks Guy). I of course need the early probably rare to find in decent condition ones, rather than the later ones. The difference is the fixing on mine is via two elongated ‘pins’ which fix into plastic lined slots in the B pillar.

I have managed a half a day on the drivers door which is now almost stripped. The lower stainless strip had been riveted in position which I had not expected. The rest of the parts came off without too much of a fight and although I suspect filler in the very bottom of the door skin, it does appear to be in not too bad condition, certainly looks better to my mind than the Spider door was. As often is the case the window ‘scraper’ on the outside of the window has come detached from the stainless strip and is missing.

I will get some photos posted soon hopefully.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: SanRemo78 on December 03, 2021, 11:44:20 AM
Okay, please don't send out the search parties to lynch me and remember that back in the 1980's Beta's were still reasonably plentiful.

My first one was a red 1978 HPE with the mustard interior which looked superb but ergonomically wasn't as comfortably as the later one. After a minor accident around 1983/4 I needed to replace the bonnet and front wings on the car and, given that it was still 99% solid, I decided that it was worth the investment of a full respray and stripped it to a shell. One thing led to another and I decided to "update" the interior too to the later blue cloth/black dash/black steering wheel. Not an impossible job, just a few mounting clips in different spots on the dash and rear quarter panels if my memory is correct.

When I said 99% solid the part that wasn't was the rear window frames, the bottom edges were crumbling under the stainless trim. The solution was a simple one, just update to the later window frames that wrap around the B pillar, secured with a couple of self tappers. If you struggle to find the right early ones this may be the route you will have to follow albeit that it can be "masked" with a coat of paint?

Guy


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 03, 2021, 11:54:34 AM
Hi Guy

Thanks, that does sound like a possible solution to the problem, which I assume was an issue on most early cars, apart from dry climate ones. I wonder if the glass is the same size as I am assuming later windows will most likely be tinted and the early cars were just plain?

There is also the black/stainless finish, but that would be secondary at this point.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: SanRemo78 on December 03, 2021, 12:45:56 PM
Hi Peter, I think that you might be able to remove the stainless trim off the original window frame and swap it over with a bit of care. The same probably goes for the glass but I can't recall how the frame was assembled. I think I got lucky and the later series glass I found was clear? Either that or I swapped the drop glass for tinted too.

Or, can metal polish remove the finish on the later trim to expose stainless steel underneath?

Guy


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 03, 2021, 06:06:20 PM
Hi Guy

If clear glass was available on later cars, would be a result. I had assumed that the black was simply some sort of paint over stainless which could be removed and polished. On swapping over the glass would depend on if the profile of the early screen glass is the same as the later ones.

I will have a hunt for some later windows and if sensible price, get them and see what I can make of them.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: betaveloce on December 04, 2021, 09:37:36 AM
I can confirm clear glass was available on later cars, because after having my 1982 I.E. repainted, I switched from clear to tinted all around (see #1oah307 on Instagram).

I still have the clear windows, but don't know if it would be interesting for you to have them sent from outside the UK, with Brexit and all...


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on December 04, 2021, 11:09:57 AM
The black finish on later cars is just paint, and can be removed relatively easily. In fact, on most Volumex/ie cars, the trick is keeping it on!

Did the black start on facelift HPEs? It didn't appear on Coupes until the second facelift.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 04, 2021, 11:22:47 AM
I can confirm clear glass was available on later cars, because after having my 1982 I.E. repainted, I switched from clear to tinted all around (see #1oah307 on Instagram).

I still have the clear windows, but don't know if it would be interesting for you to have them sent from outside the UK, with Brexit and all...

Hi, thanks for the offer. I do intend buying a pair of good condition later windows and may very well need the clear glass if the early glass is a different size.

To save the shipping to U.K. issues and costs, you can ship to our friends in France where we can pick it up when we visit next year. I will let you know when I have the replacement windows here.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2021, 01:25:33 PM
A good day spent on the car yesterday. Finally have the drivers door off and attacked the RHD front wing. Some of the screws came out ok, two had to be drilled. Given the state of the inner wing I am surprised that many unscrewed. Also managed to remove the rest of the fixings from the rear hatch including the stainless window surround. The window will be the next job. It is very well fixed in with the original bonding, so will be a challenge. Photos below of how far I have got…

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on December 05, 2021, 03:26:52 PM
Hi Peter,
I bought a length of abrasive cutting wire, made for screen removal.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333858995028 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/333858995028)

Great to view the progress.

Nigel


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2021, 03:34:42 PM
Hi Nigel

Interesting, thanks for link. I was going to try a length of bike brake cable I have, if that is not abrasive enough will invest in some of that. Cannot see how else you get it out.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: WestonE on December 05, 2021, 03:38:57 PM
If you have the nerve to try it Fein Vibrating saws are frequently used in a slow and steady way.

Eric


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2021, 03:53:59 PM
One point to make is that although the inner wing is bad, it is no worse than the Spider when they uncovered that. Overall the Spider was much worse than what I see in the HPE (at present of course). On the Spider as well as the inner front wings, the outer wings were scrap, one door needed a fair amount of new metal, both sides at the base of A and B pillars needed work, the rear turrets were a mess. On the HPE so far there is some work at the base of the A pillars, and some rot around the base of the rear turrets together with minor bits of rust in various places where some new metal will be needed, but not huge amounts compared to the Spider which also needed new front footwells amongst other items. the top of the fuel tank is rusty, but will wait to see how much when I drop it down. Overall pretty happy with what I have found so far. I am sure when it is blasted we will find a whole load more.....

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 05, 2021, 03:56:22 PM
If you have the nerve to try it Fein Vibrating saws are frequently used in a slow and steady way.

Eric

Hi Eric

Power tools near to glass would not be an option I would use, I would definitely ruin the glass. I like the slow manual method.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on December 05, 2021, 11:54:08 PM
The inside of the fuel tank is more critical then the outside as I'm sure you appreciate.
 
From what I've read in numerous other threads, fuel issues
contribute the most stress. It was for this reason that I hardly hesitated
in fitting a new tank, despite the considerable investment.

Glad to hear that, in the main so far, you're finding fewer issues than the Spider.

Nigel


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: WestonE on December 06, 2021, 08:20:08 AM
Hi Nigel

I agree with your view on take no risks with rusty tanks.

Eric


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 06, 2021, 07:04:02 PM
I will take the sender out over next few days and survey the scene….

Major job of the day apart from sweeping up, was to finish getting the rear window out. A right royal pain. In the end I heated the original sealant with a hot air gun, this made it a bit more pliable. I then was able to get the internally fixed trim out completely. Then I cleared as much of the sealant out with a Stanley blade and small angled scraper as possible. Then using a bike brake cable I was able to cut the remaining sealant. It took a good few hours. The interior trim and glass removed so far have now been stored away in the attic workshop.

Starting to look like a bare chassis.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on December 06, 2021, 11:43:32 PM
Peter,
That screen surround appears to be in very good condition, far better than mine.
Glad you got that screen out with what you had.

If you find that the tank sender unit is damaged/rusty/etc upon inspection, which they
often are, don't be too quick in buying an exact replacement. You have the
opportunity to upgrade to the later type, but that would be in conjunction with a new tank.

Regards, Nigel


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 07, 2021, 09:57:53 AM
Hi Nigel

Yes, the whole rear hatch is in good condition apart from the holes where the badges fit, which is typical because of the metal on metal with the pins, crap design. They will be easily filled and redrilled and I put butyl on the back of the badges to stop water ingress etc. Overall the rear of the car is in great condition, with a hole in the left hand rear well, just below a badly fitting aerial point…… also on the right hand side at the front of the right turret. It appears the turrets have had work done in the past, but is still in good condition.

I still have the wiring to remove from the rear hatch which will probably be a little awkward, one side has been cut for some reason, but I was aiming to rebuild the loom anyway, so just need the original as a template.

Then it is on with the rest of the interior and passenger door which should hopefully be fairly straight forward.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 09, 2021, 07:07:50 PM
A good days work, ignored the hatch and pressed on with removing the interior and left hand door parts. The only issue I had was the rear seats are held in with a number of cross headed countersunk bolts and they protrude to the underside. They are well fastened in and I really do want to drill them, so am leaving for now and will revisit later with some easing oil on the underside when I can sensibly get to it to clean up the bolts.

Generally not a huge amount of rot. The left hand door has some rot along the front area where the triangular glass sits, mainly on the inside which is curious, but the rest of the door looks to be solid. Not had the carpet up yet, but have seen some what appears to be surface rust. You can also now see that both sills have been replaced and around the base of the rear turrets is a bit of a bodge, but that looks to have to be redone anyway, so no big surprise.

Always amuses me the variety of screws (cross point and slotted) used to when a car is just kept going. Also the after market stereo installation where the speaker wires are run along the carpet trim below the doors and held in with silicone rather than under than remove the trim and run them where the other wires go.

The carpet is ready to come out, but leaving in there as more comfortable than the metal floor!

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 11, 2021, 05:44:23 PM
A bit more achieved today, steering column out and dash removed. Also deleted the extra crap wiring previously installed so I can see where the original is. My aim is to replace the loom with modern wire and provided a bulkhead connector which will allow me to wire up the engine bay and importantly change it as I will probably update the engine at a later time.

Should get some time on Monday, so next up is finish stripping the left hand door, just the circlip on the pull handle to take off and remove the heater unit. After that the pedals and should be ready to remove the carpet and see how the floor is.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: WestonE on December 12, 2021, 11:33:03 AM
A rare picture of what lies behind the dash. I struggled to find one for my later car when I came to re-building. This early car if significantly different including the large Oval holes to the scuttle.

Eric   


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 14, 2021, 06:27:07 PM
Hi

A couple of days on the car. Windscreen and surround out and finished stripping the main cabin interior except the wiring as leaving for now. Headlining removal revealed mouse nest, no surprise and no damage. On the rear seat backrest mounts only one bolt had to be drilled out which was a surprise as most were mangled and rusty.

Carpet now removed and floor looks in good condition. Major issue us the drivers side base of the A pillar where it is all corroded behind where the little bin is located. Photo also shows some patching up from before with the lighter blue paint.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: SanRemo78 on December 14, 2021, 06:35:47 PM
Looking very good for such an early car! I've seen the removal of the soundproofing done by pouring dry ice over it to freeze it and then hitting with a rubber mallet to smash it. Might need some research and I have no idea where you source dry ice!

Guy


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 14, 2021, 07:21:56 PM
Hi Guy

The internal soundproofing for the rear seats is as new and just lifts up, the rest is pretty much a mishmash, but hoping when it is blasted it will all come up ok.

I know underseal responds well to freezing to remove it, but again, hoping what there is will be taken care of by the body guy.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on December 23, 2021, 05:33:16 PM
Guy, I think you meant the thin bituminous material which is stuck down underneath the padded material. In the rear wells it is in good condition and depending on the body guy, may well be left. however the front wells do need cleaning out.

Had a few hours on the car today and managed to get the fuel tank out. As I suspected it has surface rust on the outside, but more seriously has a lot of rust above where the petrol was sitting, so looks only good enough as a pattern for getting a new one made which is a shame, but not unexpected given the general state of the car and how long it has been left standing.

Finding a genuine replacement will be pretty impossible I think, so will investigate the one discussed here on the forum a while ago and see if that is still and option. Given my aim is to go Injection with the car, it makes sense to have a tank which includes the necessary swirl pot etc I think, rather than use and external one which Eric gave me a pointer to a while ago if using standard tank.

The panels on the body around the tank are however in good condition and I only have two of the four tank mounting studs to replace.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on January 25, 2022, 12:09:39 AM
Hi

A quick hopefully simple pair of questions.

I am aiming to remove the engine and leave the subframe in for the time being until we establish how secure the front is without it at the bodywork shop.

The questions are, should the battery tray be removable and does it need to be removed to get the engine out from the top?

My tray is welded to the support and possibly to the inner wing, but I seem to remember on the later cars it may be removable?

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: mangocrazy on January 25, 2022, 04:38:38 PM
Hi Peter,

It's obviously better to remove the battery tray, as it's one less thing for the gearbox to snag on, but if the earlier cars did not have removable battery trays (my S2FL battery tray is bolted on to two arms) then I would say it has to be doable. I can't imagine Lancia would knowingly add that kind of gotcha to the design (having said that...)

The S2FL has 4 bolts securing the tray into two arms that project from the LH inner wing. If yours is welded I'd be inclined to try and convert to later spec (if it's possible). But of course that would be much easier to accomplish with the engine and gearbox absent from the engine bay. Bit of a Catch-22, really.

But the answer is a qualified yes. It has to be possible to remove the engine/gearbox with the battery tray in situ. When the engine/gearbox assembly is lifted out, the gearbox is always 'low' and can be manoeuvred fore and aft once  clear of mountings. You'd probably want 2 people, one to gently winch and the other to guide the engine/gearbox past all the snagging points, but I'd definitely say it's possible.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on January 25, 2022, 06:24:21 PM
Hi Graham

Glad I had not imagined it being bolted. On the Spider I cannot remember if was originally and it came back from the bodyshop welded, but for some reason I had to change it so is now a bolted version.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: mangocrazy on January 25, 2022, 07:04:29 PM
Hi Graham

Glad I had not imagined it being bolted. On the Spider I cannot remember if was originally and it came back from the bodystockings welded, but for some reason I had to change it so is now a bolted version.

Peter

I presume autocomplete had a hand in this? Or is there something you want to tell us?  ;D


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on January 31, 2022, 05:39:11 PM
Hi Graham

Glad I had not imagined it being bolted. On the Spider I cannot remember if was originally and it came back from the bodystockings welded, but for some reason I had to change it so is now a bolted version.

Peter

I presume autocomplete had a hand in this? Or is there something you want to tell us?  ;D

You never know..... Yep iPad to blame, updated now!

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on January 31, 2022, 05:50:46 PM
After sorting out family issues for the last month, I am now back on the HPE strip down, had a day and half. Managed to remove

Exhaust, now in the scrap pile
The clutch and brake mechanism which is used on RHD cars
Servo and master cylinder
Passenger door and outer wing, oddly the passenger inner wing is nowhere near as bad as the drivers one, still looking for donor car, anyone?
Engine mounting bolts
Front baffles for radiator
Front skirt
Front bumper

Also drained fluid from engine and gearbox, oddly the gearbox oil was quite clear, the engine oil very black.

Soon be engine out time once the drive shaft bolts have been removed.

Target is end of Feb to finish, will be close.

One last thing is I managed to buy a pair of rear inserts (NOS) via the Beta Facebook page. These appear to be uber rare now and very expensive, so hoping although old stock they are good, fingers crossed. I think the front ones will be a whole lot simpler to find.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on January 31, 2022, 07:20:23 PM
Good to hear of your progress Peter.

If your rear shocks are showing any signs of rust at the bottom, I have a clean pair
that you can have.
They are the sealed type, so would need converting though.

Cheers, Nigel


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: WestonE on January 31, 2022, 07:33:51 PM
Hi Peter

The gearbox oil drained cold can fail to collect the crud inside the gearbox so expect to sacrifice some oil to drain it again hot when the car runs. NB I had this with a 24k Monte Gearbox I re-built for Chris Clarke. The old oil came out golden but left crud and had etched syncros and bearings. Largely the internals were scrap. Take the diff case and 5th gear cover off off and have a really good look.

Eric   


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on January 31, 2022, 07:39:28 PM
Hi Eric

Thanks, I am aiming to use an IE gearbox/diff, so this with the engine will go in the ‘spares’ pile with the other ones I have.

Good point about the crud, there probably is some given the age/mileage and the magnet was none too clean.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on January 31, 2022, 07:41:52 PM
Good to hear of your progress Peter.

If your rear shocks are showing any signs of rust at the bottom, I have a clean pair
that you can have.
They are the sealed type, so would need converting though.

Cheers, Nigel

Hi Nigel

Thanks, not had a good look yet, but I believe the ones I have are the original replaceable ones after ‘feeling’ the top for the nut.

Fingers crossed…

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on February 03, 2022, 03:04:14 PM
Another morning on the car and have the two driveshafts disconnected from the diff/intermediate shaft. Also removed the front headlight levelling ‘thing’ which is attached to the offside lower suspension arm.

So here is the question, as all the headlight levelling parts need replacing, do I just do a delete on the whole thing and live with static headlights like on the Coupe/Spider. It will make my life a whole lot simpler and save me a bunch of money as I imagine these parts are a pain to find in good working condition?

Note I do not imagine carrying that much which is heavy in the back, so I cannot see a situation where the rear will be overloaded. Also this will not be restored as per original, so that is not an issue for me. This is being built for me, no one else!

Let me know your thoughts……

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: Nigel on February 03, 2022, 10:15:01 PM
Hi Peter,
It's a factory-sealed system, you can't refill it in any way.

I found that, on mine, the system wasn't working.
I removed everything, but retained the [seized] front actuators in position as the
outboard headlights adjust from there.

If your actuators move, i'm sure there will be a way to fix that with something creative.

Regards, Nigel



Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on February 03, 2022, 11:28:04 PM
Hi Nigel

Makes me even less inclined to keep it, so consigned to the scrap pile it is. Pretty sure the actuators are seized or they look like it. I may just replace the backing plates with Spider ones as I think I have some spare ones.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on February 07, 2022, 11:26:32 PM
Back on colours, currently liking this Toyota colour called Hot Lava code 4R8

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: mangocrazy on February 08, 2022, 10:01:48 PM
Not really my cup of tea, but colour is a very personal choice. I quite like the colour it is currently.


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on February 08, 2022, 11:45:02 PM
Hi Graham

Yes, very personal. I really like some of the blue metallics but not with brown interior and I do like the early seats and dash….

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: mangocrazy on February 09, 2022, 12:00:30 AM
Hi Graham

Yes, very personal. I really like some of the blue metallics but not with brown interior and I do like the early seats and dash….

Peter
Hi Peter,

Yes, the brown interior does rather narrow the choice of colours available. Always a tricky decision.

Graham


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on March 12, 2022, 04:08:41 PM
A bit of an update.

Currently going through loosening all the nuts and bolts on the suspension, removing the brake calipers, but not removing the suspension completely, ie leaving the wheels so I can move the car and more importantly allow me to transport it to the bodywork guy. Fairly happy with how it is coming part dispute a fair amount of surface rust on everything. Only one or two sheared small bolts to sort out so far.

John, the bodywork guy who did my Spider, came yesterday to take a look and declared it ok for him. We agreed to transport with suspension on and then remove it when on his lift so I can then sort getting it and the subframe refurbished. I suspect he will want to keep the front subframe to help with the alignment of the front whist the wings are repaired, though I do have a couple more in my stock of parts, so may choose to use one of them instead.

Looks like it will hit John’s place around the end of May to fit in with his workload, which suits me, hopefully it will not slip too much.

In my quest to get as many parts purchased now rather than leave it due the prices most likely going skywards, I have a quote form Lincolnshire Radiators to recore the radiator of £221, it is the older metal one. I also purchased the complete linkage kit from John in the US which I also used on the Spider. The linkage and bushes on the HPE are shot as per normal.

I also bought some bearings as going to replace all the hub ones and a pair of CV joints. As on one on the Spider they are not 100% correct and as supplied they bind on the hub housing when tightened. So I can return which is a pain and no guarantee what I do get will be any better, or as I did with the Spider get the CV joint modified. I now have a neighbour who was a machinist before retiring and has a lathe in the garage and has offered to help if I need anything done. So I am going to have a chat with him, hopefully can get it sorted. One issue I do have is that the dust rings fitted to the CV joints are completely rusted and not usable. Anyone know where they can be found?

Peter



Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on March 21, 2022, 11:38:01 AM
Hi

Currently going through a spate of purchases, decided to buy as much as I can in advance given all the talk about price rises etc.

Latest is a the shifter kit from John in the US (http://fiatlancia.us/ (http://fiatlancia.us/))

A few more bits to come.

One word of warning which I knew from the Spider is that there are some CV joints out there which are listed as for the Beta, but when you fit them bind on the hub. The fix is either buy the correct one! Or get them machined to remove the lip which is too large. Of course the ones I bought are the latter type, given the cost which is pretty cheap and I have ex machinist who is a neighbour, I will get them modified. A pain, but you have to adapt.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on March 24, 2022, 01:32:23 PM
Next up is the gearbox I want to use. Looking through the specs on the various gearboxes/diffs I thought it would make sense to go with a VX box. The reason for this is that the engine I am aiming to build is going to be n/a but with mods such as throttle bodies, different inlet cam, ported head and increased compression ratios, 4 branch exhaust. So hoping that the power and more importantly the torque will be much improved over the standard 2l carb engine. As this car is for just road driving, having a good cruising gear was pretty important even if I spend a fair amount of time in 4th on normal roads. Time will of course tell.

I bought the box on Ebay from a guy called Mike who it turned out used to be Guy Croft’s machinist when he had a company in Kent. He still is hands on with various machines in a small workshop at home. The box was out of a running VX, albeit 20 years ago. It is possible it was rebuilt at some point, but I will give it a good clean out, check bearings to the best of my ability and we will see how it performs before I worry about stripping it down with all that entails.

Second photo shows the stamping of the ratios which are 19/62

See this link to table of ratios

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2115.0 (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2115.0)


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on March 31, 2022, 11:06:11 PM
Another couple of days spent stripping the car. Removed as many of the plastic clips as I can find that make sense, anyone know where I can find replacements for

1) The hook type ones which retain the loom
2) The square ones used in various places such as door and brake mechanism cover in passenger well
3) The ones used to hold the brake and fuel lines

Also spent a not too enjoyable hour or with a heat gun getting the foam/bituminous padding off the inner roof. Also finished getting the loom out from the rear hatch which was not so simple.

So apart from the engine coming out (it is all loose ready to be lifted) the car is ready to go off to the bodywork guy which is currently slated for end of May all being well.

I am now in buying mode for parts which will tax the credit card. Ordered a brake hose kit the other day, I should have read the details more closely. Listed for an HPE 1600, what came was 4 hoses, not a lot of good when you need 6……

They are going back and a 6 hose kit being ordered. Not sure why anyone would produce a 4 hose kit?

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on April 06, 2022, 11:26:33 PM
I sent off the original metal radiator to Lincolnshire Radiators to be recored as the core had seen better days. They came back with two options, standard and uprated core options. Pricing was relatively little between them, but as I am going to run and uprated engine, I decided on an uprated core.

I picked up the radiator today and all looks good, total price was £266.

As part of my spending spree (which is looking like it will be going on for a while…) I also picked up from Ebay a couple of new front struts complete, also something I thought would be impossible to find, other than maybe from a stupidly priced Italian seller, a brand new Siem wing indicator light. Just need to now find a n other in reasonable condition. So if anyone has one please get in touch. It does need to be the Siem part with metal surround rather than the plastic of the later and more common version.

Peter



Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: mangocrazy on April 07, 2022, 09:15:50 AM
I sent off the original metal radiator to Lincolnshire Radiators to be recored as the core had seen better days. They came back with two options, standard and uprated core options. Pricing was relatively little between them, but as I am going to run and uprated engine, I decided on an uprated core.

I picked up the radiator today and all looks good, total price was £266.
That looks ideal, Peter. Having a radiator of the same height and width dimensions makes packaging so much simpler. I presume the depth of the core is greater to provide the uprated capacity? Did Lincolnshire Radiators advise what engine power range the uprated radiator is suitable for? I will almost certainly be following in your footsteps here...


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: peteracs on April 07, 2022, 09:38:58 AM
Hi Graham

I did not ask re power, though not sure if they could answer it. I will ask.

As to size, physically it is the same, I understood the construction of the core was such that it allow more cooling than the standard one. Again I will ask. My main aim was to try to keep the standard mountings/size to avoid revising the front. I aim to use a modern fan assembly with it.

If I find the temp variation is significant then a rethink may be necessary, but the car is slated for road use only on a n/a engine, so worth going down this road to my mind.

Peter


Title: Re: Early HPE restoration
Post by: WestonE on April 10, 2022, 01:39:45 PM
Hi Peter

I have been looking for 1 SIEM Wing indicator for years to match the single NOS one I have. So if you do find more than one I definitely want one.

Eric