Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Engine => Topic started by: mangocrazy on July 23, 2020, 07:19:29 PM



Title: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on July 23, 2020, 07:19:29 PM
I debated whether to put this question in General discussion or in the Engine section. If I've erred by putting it here, please move the thread.

I've had my Beta engine on an engine stand for months (could actually be years), and have bolted the engine stand to the bell housing, which is very secure. However I will soon want to attach the flywheel to the crank, which will not be possible as it is now. Recently an Italian guy on Facebook has been sharing photos of his engine build and he has the engine stand bolted to the back (i.e. exhaust side) of the block. I did ask him how he had attached the engine stand and he replied in Italian: 'sulla staffa della marmitta che sta dietro al monoblocco'. FB's translation of this is: 'on the stirrup of the muffler behind the monoblock'.

From this I'm assuming that he's using the 4 bolts that retain the exhaust pipe clamp holder, just above the sump. From memory these are only M8 bolts (or is my memory playing tricks?). Would people regard 4 M8 bolts as being sufficient to support the weight of an engine?

This is the photo of the (partially built) engine on the stand:



Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: spydervx on July 25, 2020, 08:17:24 PM
Hi Graham,

Attached are photos of how I mounted my engine on the stand when building it up.

I could only get 3 points of attachment as shown.

I built the engine up beyond these photos to include belts and sump fitted but was concerned that I only had 3 fixing points, low down on the block and I think (it was some time ago!) I assembled the gearbox and engine with the engine in a timber cradle before lifting into the car.

I do not think this was the ideal solution and I am sure others will be better able to advise, but this did work for me.

If I was to do it again, and was stuck with these 3 mounting points, I would ensure there was a harness in place to catch any potential drop.

Hope this is of some use. 

Gerry




Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on July 27, 2020, 06:51:59 PM
Hi Gerry, thanks for that, and for the very clear photos. I also follow Guy Croft on his Facebook page and asked him how what fixings he used to mount the exhaust side of the block to his engine stand. His (typically terse) reply was 'Middle 4'. He expanded further by saying 'er yes. I've had Integrale 16v held that way. Trust me now?'. This was after I'd expressed doubts that 4 x M8 bolts were sufficient to hold an engine.

Anyway, I've seen enough people use that fixing method to persuade me, so now it's down to figuring how to make it work with my engine stand.


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on December 14, 2020, 06:08:51 PM
The solution I came up with was to get hold of a piece of steel plate the same size and shape (250mm x 150mm x 12mm) as that used on my engine stand. This was then drilled with 4 x M8 holes in a 70mm x 38mm rectangle in the centre of the plate to correspond with the 4 mounting points on the block. I then offered up my plate to the engine stand and marked out the mounting slots onto my plate using a blue Sharpie. I then drilled out 4 x M12 holes in a larger rectangle approximately halfway between the M8 rectangle and the edge of the plate. I stress that all this drilling work was carried out on my trust Startrite Mercury pillar drill. I wouldn't have attempted it without a decent pillar drill, as I doubt the accuracy would be good enough trying it by hand and drilling large-ish holes in 12mm steel plate requires that it's clamped down solidly to avoid the possibility of personal injury.

Before doing this I'd approached a local engineering firm with a 300mm long piece of 25mm round steel bar and asked them to centre drill it to 8mm from one end and 12mm from the other end, meeting in the middle, so I effectively had 150mm of bar with a 12mm hole and 150mm of bar with an 8mm hole. I then cut 4 slices off the M8 end of the bar, each of 12mm depth and 4 slices off the M12 end of the bar, each of 10mm depth. Again, I wouldn't have attempted this freehand using a hacksaw or angle grinder with slitting disc, as I couldn't guaranteed repeatability. But as I have a horizontal bandsaw I could get all the slices as close to the same depth as made no difference. With this done I bolted the slices to the plate in the correct orientation and took it down to some excellent and friendly welders I know. My welding is nowhere near good enough for stuff like this.

Results are shown below. Next thing is to get it plated to minimise rusting and it will be ready to use.



Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: peteracs on December 14, 2020, 07:48:14 PM
Hi Graham

That looks pretty awesome solution. Assuming you have finished with it next winter, I may come calling for a rental of it..... Saves reinventing!

Peter


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on December 14, 2020, 08:21:32 PM
Hi Graham

That looks pretty awesome solution. Assuming you have finished with it next winter, I may come calling for a rental of it..... Saves reinventing!

Peter
You'll be very welcome Peter. The only consideration is whether the mount points line up with your engine stand. If not, you could probably borrow the engine stand as well...  ;D


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: peteracs on December 14, 2020, 09:05:53 PM
Hi Graham

That looks pretty awesome solution. Assuming you have finished with it next winter, I may come calling for a rental of it..... Saves reinventing!

Peter
You'll be very welcome Peter. The only consideration is whether the mount points line up with your engine stand. If not, you could probably borrow the engine stand as well...  ;D

Hi Graham

I will make a diagram of it and let you know!

Many thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: betabuoy on December 15, 2020, 04:46:02 PM
... I also follow Guy Croft on his Facebook page and asked him how what fixings he used to mount the exhaust side of the block to his engine stand. His (typically terse) reply was 'Middle 4'. He expanded further by saying 'er yes. I've had Integrale 16v held that way. Trust me now?'. This was after I'd expressed doubts that 4 x M8 bolts were sufficient to hold an engine.

Anyway, I've seen enough people use that fixing method to persuade me, so now it's down to figuring how to make it work with my engine stand.

Hi Graham

I copied the GC approved method years ago and just drilled an extra hole in the plate so i could achieve 4 secure fastenings.  Pic below is my stand.  Also shown below is my engine, on Guy's stand during the build. It works.

Chris
 


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on December 15, 2020, 05:44:18 PM
Hi Chris,

Yes, my solution was a more complicated way of arriving at the same result, but I'm happy with it. I think the weight should be better distributed on the engine stand with the way I've done it, even if only marginally. Also it was an interesting exercise in using my pillar drill and bandsaw. I've only recently finished renovating my pillar drill and I'd been looking for something substantial to make using it, if I'm honest. Here's the pillar drill:



Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: betabuoy on December 15, 2020, 06:03:26 PM
Hi Graham,
Not only do you have a splendid pillar drill, but the workshop looks pretty tidy too.  I always aspired to keep my tools mounted on the wall like those screwdrivers but itís not yet happened.  Happy workspace!



Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on December 15, 2020, 07:09:44 PM
Hi Chris,

The bench was cleaned up specifically for the photo. It's normally inches deep in tools, drill bits, bits of motorbike and paper towels...  ;D

But it is a very nice pillar drill. Only took me 8 years after stripping it down to get it restored and rebuilt...

Graham


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: peteracs on December 31, 2020, 09:26:45 PM
Hi Graham

Can you let me have the mounting bolt distances to fit onto the engine mount bracket so I can compare with my engine mount? 

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: mangocrazy on January 06, 2021, 01:24:44 PM
Hi Peter,

the adaptor plate is currently away being plated (I'm having it black phosphated), and will measure it all up for you when I get it back.

Graham


Title: Re: Where to bolt an engine stand to the block
Post by: peteracs on January 06, 2021, 01:43:07 PM
Hi Graham

Many thanks.

Peter