Lancia Beta Forum

General Category => Members Cars => Topic started by: WestonE on April 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM



Title: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 07, 2020, 10:47:59 AM
Hi Beta Fans

I have referred to this project from time to time in my Montecarlo Thread. Well tomorrow morning the freshly painted rolling chassis arrives from the paint shop in stunning light blue metallic 2 pack.
The Shell has had ALL suspect metal cut out and replaced and been dipped to remove ALL old paint and sealant. It has taken years to get to this point.

I have a strengthened Subframe running custom far stronger wishbones and I have Gazmatic Gold Coilovers fitted all round.
The Gearbox is a rebuilt VX unit with integrale bearings in the right places and a Gripper LSD
The engine has forged pistons and rods and a Guy Croft BIG valve head running the Cat Cams proven on my Montecarlo along with coil per cylinder ignition and a drive by wire throttle.
The VX unit rebuilt by GC and Zylan coated runs a smaller pulley. I should see 250BHP and 240 Ft lbs of torque   
Tyres are Azev A 7x15 and will run sticky Yokohama track cross over tyres
I have 2 full VX Coupe interiors to sort out the interior. 

I have been building components for years so finally I get to fit some to the shell:
rebuilt heater
full new wiring loom in thin wall cable with water proof connectors
rebuilt wiper assembly
Rebuilt headlights & tail lights
New tank converted to FI with a Phantom kit & full new FI fuel piping in car like the VX.
Power Steering
Custom Radiator 
6 piston front brakes & full new brake pipes
Pedal box with Drive by wire conversion
rebuilt steering column LHD style on the right so the indicators match my other cars
Full rear seat belts (fabricated mounts)
4 x 50 watts speakers in custom metal work
Fully rebuilt Electric Windows & all frames stripped and re plated
All new rubber trims and a new windscreen Targa and hood     

I have a lot to do and will get some photos up here soon

Let the games begin!

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on April 07, 2020, 04:32:20 PM
Fabulous stuff, Eric.

But we really, REALLY need pictures...  ;D

The questions will come later.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on April 08, 2020, 07:31:50 PM
Nice project Eric,

Really looking forward to seeing this go together. And ultimately GO!

Ian


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: markw on April 15, 2020, 10:51:35 AM
Sounds like a great build, Eric. Would you mind elaborating on the cams you are using (you mentioned Cat Cams)? I'm trying to solve the VX cam puzzle as I build my engine (I also have FI VX ambitions), but I am finding a lot of low-confidence information online.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 15, 2020, 11:37:51 AM
Hi Mark

The conventional proven answer is a pair of Strada / Ritmo 130 TC cams or Beta IE cams with the timing shifted to get low Lift at TDC. This reduces blow through and back pulses into the VX unit and give a handy power increase. This works well with a DCNF or DCOE with the hot filter box heavily insulated or preferably replaced with a duct hose and cold air cone filter. The cat cams were special order and I need to look up the reference. You can do a lot with good 130 TC cams. I have really done this and tested it at Storm Developments a Turbo and SC specialist rolling road.

Let me know which cams and I can share the timing you should dial in.

Eric     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:20:45 PM
(http://)

Photos I hope


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:21:54 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:23:16 PM
(http://)
Gaz Gold Suspension & Upgraded Wishbones


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:24:39 PM
(http://)
VX FI Engine & Coil Per Cylinder


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:26:26 PM
(http://)
Drive By Wire Pedal Box using Tilton Parts
Custom Radiator with Oil Cooler


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on April 21, 2020, 06:28:30 PM
(http://)
Rear Speaker Pod and Extra seat belt mounts. There is ISO Fix there as well!
Hidden Stereo install and Cruise Control!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on May 18, 2020, 04:46:38 PM
I have made some progress but with a lot of 2 foot forward 1 foot back stuff like finding my polished door trims were actually HPE items so had to be VERY carefully cut down to fit and the front hub bearings had been trashed in the bodyshop because they did not have the end CV joint bolted in. Now re-built. I am now Ninja qualified in re-building power steering racks with a good one on the car and a spare after finding the (re-furbished) rack was black sprayed rust and junk.

I found the clips from Bresco to hold the internal trim onto the windscreen surround but have a full new headlining to make before I can fit a screen, door, hood and targa trims. I will get easier or so I keep telling myself!

Bless Chingford Plating for turning rust things into shinny things and big thanks to Pete the Polisher for making old stainless shinny!

Enjoy Eric
     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on May 18, 2020, 04:50:21 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Sandro on May 18, 2020, 05:50:29 PM
Great job Eric. it looks very tidy indeed.
 :)
A.





Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on May 18, 2020, 10:55:29 PM
Whats the hatch in the boot floor for Eric? Fuel pump access?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on May 19, 2020, 07:15:40 AM
Hi Stuart

For the tank pump and level sender. Photo attached.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 01, 2020, 06:08:01 PM
Indulgence with badges instead of doing real work!
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 02, 2020, 07:52:23 AM
Nice touch


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 12, 2020, 06:22:16 PM
Fun with VX Recaro Seat mounts and runners over the last couple of days has meant stripping the runners from 6 seats to make a set since they were all seized up! They are an odd design with 3 large wheel runners each which go missing or end up jammed  in the middle.

Just 1 more odd challenge I was not expecting. At least I have a pair of front seats with the full fabric and even the seat back pocket.

Onto the next strange challenge.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 12, 2020, 08:40:36 PM
Thatís interesting. When I put the recaros back in my car after a 15 year lay up, I only had one roller in each runner. Thought it was odd but the seats kind of work so I didnít give it any more thought. Just put it down to shoddy old 80ís engineering.

Looks like I will have to re-visit the seat runners now.

One thing I decided to do was to raise the drivers seat and tilt them forward a little with alloy blocks under the bolt points. I always felt the recaro seats where too low compared to the regular spongy seats and the driving position less than ideal. Depends on you physique I guess but I really benefit from the height/angle change.

Keep up the strange work

Ian


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: rossocorsa on June 13, 2020, 12:55:12 AM
Thatís interesting. When I put the recaros back in my car after a 15 year lay up, I only had one roller in each runner. Thought it was odd but the seats kind of work so I didnít give it any more thought. Just put it down to shoddy old 80ís engineering.

Looks like I will have to re-visit the seat runners now.

One thing I decided to do was to raise the drivers seat and tilt them forward a little with alloy blocks under the bolt points. I always felt the recaro seats where too low compared to the regular spongy seats and the driving position less than ideal. Depends on you physique I guess but I really benefit from the height/angle change.

Keep up the strange work

Ian


A long time since I've driven mine but I added packers to the front to tilt the base back a bit as otherwise leg support was poor  leading to creaking limbs on long drives.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 13, 2020, 08:16:30 AM
Fun with VX Recaro Seat mounts and runners over the last couple of days has meant stripping the runners from 6 seats to make a set since they were all seized up! They are an odd design with 3 large wheel runners each which go missing or end up jammed  in the middle.

Just 1 more odd challenge I was not expecting. At least I have a pair of front seats with the full fabric and even the seat back pocket.

Onto the next strange challenge.

Eric

Eric,
I donít suppose you have one to hand that you could measure please.

Iíd like to knock a few up in nylon before I take my seats out to replace them.

Many thanks
Ian



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 14, 2020, 01:43:07 PM
Hi Ian

I have a spare runner with notches in the rubber bit I can send you. PM me the address please.  There should be 2 rollers in each runner (not 3!) and there should be stop plates on the mounting bolts so they can not move to far and throw the rollers out. On several of mine there was only 1 roller left and it had got stuck in the centre jamming the runner. The old grease had set to concrete, but with picking the best bits, soaking in the pats washer and using fresh moly grease I have a car set of runners and bits the platers will make fit to use to build a spare set. Onto the next job!

Eric     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 16, 2020, 05:51:47 PM
Hi Beta Fans

I thought I would share a couple more photos.
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 16, 2020, 05:54:31 PM
And some more Photos of the ongoing challenge(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on June 16, 2020, 06:41:52 PM
Hi Eric

I have to say I had the seats recovered, but never considered the runners being U/S. another job to add to the list To check when I get them out of storage in the loft....

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 16, 2020, 08:23:23 PM
Hi Peter

I checked mine whilst I was nearby in the loft and got a shock. Hence the fix. Check the frame pivots and fold down mechanism whilst you are there.

Good luck Eric

NB these are VX Coupe Recaro runners so maybe normal seat ones are better.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on June 16, 2020, 11:05:19 PM
Hi,
the standard rollers have a much smaller rolling diameter,almost half in fact, and the channels
are less deep. Design the same though.
N.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:43:03 AM
Hi Nigel

If they were standard runners I could just buy new ones from Car Builder Solutions. The VX ones are specials for the Recaros!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:45:38 AM
I thought I would share the Nuts and bolts of the job!
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:46:47 AM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 20, 2020, 09:49:27 AM
You will notice Gold Passivate plated fixings where the platers have transformed the corroded OE Nuts and bolts on a big scale saving me a fortune in new nuts and bolts.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 25, 2020, 08:01:52 AM
I have worked out how to build my front strut brace using an off the shelf OMP universal item for the adjustable bar that ensures the tension needed is there. A trip to the laser cutters soon to get card board made into steel before some simple welding and painting.

Image of the pattern.
(http://) 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 25, 2020, 08:05:14 AM
BTW the small passivated bit holds the bumper rubber end so I will ask if they can make them in stainless cheaply.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: squiglyzigly on June 25, 2020, 08:59:25 AM
Nice detail.

Thought the small passivated bracket looked familiar. Was stripping and polishing the front bumper yesterday and had those in my hand.

Looking forward to seeing the completed bracing.

Ian


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on June 25, 2020, 05:19:14 PM
Hi Eric

I too will be interested in seeing the bracing, something I had wondered what was possible to buy to make one.

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 29, 2020, 01:54:35 PM
Some more bits of the puzzle like the OMP bit of the strut brace with the adjuster.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 29, 2020, 01:57:20 PM
And a few more like making new fixing for the bumper rubbers with Inserts from Car Builder Solutions and Tiger Seal.
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on June 29, 2020, 02:02:22 PM
(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 06, 2020, 08:33:27 PM
And now I am strangely excited that I will be receiving a Nardi Evolution Gear Knob to go with the quick shift gear lever (thanks to Mark at Beta Boyz).
I am still challenged by creating a leather gaiter for the gear lever but I have a cunning plan to quote Baldrick and Black Adder.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 08, 2020, 08:17:46 AM
Some pictures of the Nardi Knob and quickshift lever using the kit from Beta Boyz and some matt black paint.

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 17, 2020, 05:52:22 PM
(http://[img])[/img]

Designing mounts for a new gear lever leather gaitor and using a chopping board for the plastic to fill in the S1 speaker holes in the doors.




Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on July 17, 2020, 05:57:19 PM
Fog Light solution finally and the Rear Speaker Mount

(http://)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on August 07, 2020, 03:55:11 PM
I foolishly thought building a spare pair of power steering hubs would be easy given the tools and knowledge I have. So of course lock rings were seized, the Lancia tool broke and alternative hub had cut off bolts firmly stuck in place and somehow hardened trashing colbolt drill bits. Then the long service press started leaking and the sand blaster sand was little more than dust  >:(

Some time later using SKF Delta Bearings. (http://[img])[/img]
   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on August 07, 2020, 03:59:55 PM
A little progress on the strut brace as I now have the laser cut top plates and D plates to attach the adjustable bar. Just welding and powder coating to go and onto the next challenge on the endless list.

 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 14, 2020, 06:07:37 PM
So slow painful progress with sound proofing fitting the gear lever and heater. Plus a test fit of the main cabin loom I re-made in modern thin wall cable.

I have also now worked out the radiator mounts and side panels, but not progressed from card board to aluminum yet. You can see the radiator is angled forwards. Helpfully both fans (1 each side) and the oil cooler all fit giving me maximum space in the engine bay for the Accusump plumbing and K&N Orion Air Cleaner cold air feed.

Currently I am working out how to fit central locking, alarm contact switches and how to install the immobilizer circuits before I paint myself into another corner!

Soon I have to give up working directly on the shell or get frost bite. Fortunately the new plywood door cards are ready, so is the new hood and I have a lot of cardboard templates that need to be made into metal so no chance of getting board whilst the body shop fix the various paint flaws. I will try to get brake lines and fuel lines finished before I turn blue and ship the car. 

Enjoy if you are one of the few that follow this.
(http://[img])[/img] 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 14, 2020, 06:21:25 PM
For the more observant I have built into the loom Switched Live distribution which is what the extra blue wires hanging on the right are about. This is to help with adding the extra fuse boxes needed for the ECU installation and the extra relays that fix the built in Lancia loom issues like slow wipers on full speed. Working this stuff out made my head hurt. Fortunately I learnt from building a full new loom and installing an ECU in the Montecarlo that wiring is first done by studying existing diagrams and designing new ones away from the car.

I am also installing fused 12V permanent distribution to not have 10 extra connection on the battery live terminal.

The impact of sorting out Earth faults, corroded connections and replacing wires that are corroded along their length (indicators and headlight earth) will transform your Beta.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on October 14, 2020, 06:39:57 PM
Mightily impressed with the finish of the engine bay & other areas on this build. Where did you find the clear indicator lenses?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 15, 2020, 08:03:45 AM
Hi the clear lens are common on European cars so I bought them via ebay a couple of years ago. I think Mark Wastnidge had some for a while as well. Sorry to be vague.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on October 15, 2020, 09:17:13 PM
Hi

Here is one side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985)

This is complete light from other side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891)

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: betaveloce on October 16, 2020, 10:32:31 AM
Thirty years into Betas and I never knew those lenses were handed   ;D
(but on closer inspection, the later ones, like the ones that Eric has, are identical left and right  :D)

Hi

Here is one side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985)

This is complete light from other side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891)

Peter



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: betaveloce on October 16, 2020, 10:34:38 AM
Enjoy if you are one of the few that follow this.

By the way, I think lots of us are following your excellent work, Eric, but we're not always reacting  ;)


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on October 16, 2020, 10:50:49 AM
Thirty years into Betas and I never knew those lenses were handed   ;D
(but on closer inspection, the later ones, like the ones that Eric has, are identical left and right  :D)
Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985[/url]

The originals were Siem ones and both the lens and body are handed from what I have on mine, however these are made by Altissimo, so maybe the same both sides?

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 16, 2020, 03:41:23 PM
Tremendous quality work as ever, Eric. The engine bay is immaculate, and I can tell the extra wiring that's been added by the size of the cable bundles... :D  What radiator are you using? Is it an off the shelf item or fabricated to your specifications? I sympathise as regards the plummetting temperatures; I've just come back from the south of France and even there it's getting a bit chilly.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on October 19, 2020, 09:23:06 PM
Hi

Here is one side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/Fanalino-Anteriore-Sinistro-Trasparente-Siem-8799-Lancia-Beta-Coupe-auto-depoca-/324120822985)

This is complete light from other side.

https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891 (https://www.ebay.it/itm/FRECCIA-FANALINO-ANTERIORE-FRONT-INDICATOR-SIEM-8710-LANCIA-BETA-COUPE-HPE-/192513089891)

Peter

Thanks for the heads up on these. They're nice but they're not £100 nice!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: peteracs on October 19, 2020, 10:15:45 PM
Hi

That would be my view, though luckily I managed to salvage the lights I already had. Also trying not to spend too much more before I get the car into a MOTíable state...

Peter


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 20, 2020, 04:49:27 PM
Hi Graham

That is a custom radiator with a thicker hi-efficiency core. As I am going for more than double factory power this and the Setrab oil cooler had to be carefully specified. I have 3 holes in the lower cross member for the studs on the radiator to sit in rubber grommets. The fans are curved blade ones from Car builder solutions I proved work really well on the Montecarlo with the fully loaded in hot weather trip over the Alps to Turin. You will note no cable tie things stuck through the radiator core. I think they strain the tubes promoting radiator failure.

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:05:50 PM
A little more progress in pictures
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:08:15 PM
Central Locking for the Alarm Installation with water proof connectors and wires back to the cabin.
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:09:34 PM
Central Locking connections
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 23, 2020, 06:13:08 PM
Fun with Plywood Door Backings. This is a lot more complicated than it should be thanks to the wobbly patterns and custom metal work!
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on October 25, 2020, 12:58:43 PM
Thanks for the rad info - double the original power certainly calls for seriously uprated heat dissipation. I like the liberal application of Dynamat everywhere - should keep unwanted resonances to a minimum. What is the thickness of the mat you're using?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on October 25, 2020, 03:26:49 PM
I am using Superlight Dynamat on the doors boot and bonnet and Dynamat extreme on the main body shell. I did use some Fat Mat but found it even more horrible to work with and it is just not as good at the job anyway.

Superlight is thinner and importantly lighter. If I make the boot heavy the springs will no longer work. The Bonnet will have some foam added and the liner made by Mark Wastnidge. I hope I can use my right foot to choose noise when I want it.

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 11, 2020, 12:12:08 PM
Some More minor progress!

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 11, 2020, 12:14:37 PM
And a couple more incredibly slow bits of progress!
(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 11, 2020, 12:19:08 PM
I am now trying to get the brackets and mounts made that need holes in the shell before it goes back to the body shop for paint fixes and making the rear bumper over the very cold winter months. I definitely under estimated how long this would take and continue to find parts I thought were good to go that need work or replacement to be worth using. Perhaps I would be better not using my glasses!

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on November 11, 2020, 10:32:14 PM
Doesn't it always? At least you've got to the putting back together stage!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: SPIT TC on November 14, 2020, 06:26:20 PM
You certainly are not short of talent Eric !


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 15, 2020, 09:58:26 AM
Thank you for the compliment. Sadly I frequently find myself running out of talent and have to remind myself I do this for the challenge of learning new skills and making a great car into an amazing car.

Every mistake is an opportunity to learn so I get a lot of opportunities to learn!

I share this stuff so others can take whatever helps them make their car just a little bit better, more fun or simply more reliable.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: HFStuart on November 15, 2020, 09:38:44 PM
Eric,

I've read before that the hubs on PS cars are different. Do you know how they are different?


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 16, 2020, 09:46:46 AM
Hi Stuart

The PS hubs have larger conical holes to accommodate the larger PS Track Rod. They are also a physically beefed up casting which is hard to spot until you put them side by side with early no PS. Maybe late generation non PS hubs are the same casting with a smaller hole?

They do have a part number in the casting.

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonTB on November 19, 2020, 08:15:22 PM
I think you will be easily surpassing an 'alfaholics' type build, just looks amazing, another bench mark like your Monte!

More power to yer elbows!!!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 27, 2020, 07:09:08 PM
So a major day in the build I have working brakes! This is with a front right back left and front left back right X pattern split and a twin channel (group n) AP Bias valve. I have copied the Integrale set up with the X split as the Master Cylinder is basically the same. But not used the Integrale twin channel rear bias valve linked to the rear suspension.

The Bias valve is there to dial down the rear brakes in emergency braking as weight shifts forward. By using an adjustable item I can reach from the engine bay I can dial in more or less rear braking to balance out the larger 284 vented front discs and 6 piston calipers. I am using Ferodo DS2500 front Pads and Tarox rears.

It was a huge relief to bleed the brakes and have sensible pedal travel as the design model said I would. Obviously this is without the servo assistance and the travel reduction from pads bedded into discs. Road tests will have to wait for a working engine.

A few pictures. (http://[img])[/img] 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 27, 2020, 07:17:21 PM
A bit of bracket fabrication lets me fit the Fuel pressure regulator and hold the radiator in place tipped forward under the front cross member. I have now made the fuse box mounting brackets and the radiator box side panels but took no photos. Next it is the new Fuel hard lines through the cabin and the car goes back to the body shop whilst I muck about with fitting the new hood to the frame lining the Targa roofs and making number plate mounts in a warm workshop. I hate working on cars in winter temperatures!

(http://[img])[/img]   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on November 27, 2020, 09:11:14 PM
I've a couple of questions;

Where did you get the radiator & fan?
Where did you source the plastic captive nuts?

How much were those parts?

Thanks.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: Nigel on November 28, 2020, 12:00:44 AM
Really great work Eric on what is unique.

Quite different to others who build concours examples, and equally dissimilar
to projects like mine.

We are all in it for the passion of Betas, but by so many, sometimes conflicting, methods.
I'm occasionally embarrassed by what I do to mine, but reality is, "it's mine, and i'll do
what I want!"

Nigel


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 28, 2020, 10:53:07 AM
Hi Nigel

Fancy engineering wastes valuable driving time so doing what works cheaply and let's you use your Beta reliably is a smart move. I know what let down my previous high performance Beta Spider and it was a very good car sold to Terry Wood in de-tuned form, but still more powerful than standard.

I know I will have more than double factory power so have tried to build in the right suspension, brakes and cooling. Other mods are for reliability, comfort or just removing things that annoyed me (properly mounted rear speakers).

Enjoy driving your car. I can only dream for now!

Eric   


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 28, 2020, 11:20:04 AM
The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of £350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

The Nylon blocks used all over the car have some cross over to parts used by Land Rover. But mine came from Poland following a tip from Fred's documented restoration on this forum.      https://auto-spinka.pl/

I found I could source new screw in Nylon Blocks for the whole car and the Montecarlo a god send for a car that was completely stripped. I also sourced brake line clips and some other random clips from Bresco.   

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 29, 2020, 01:39:37 PM
Fuel Hard Lines prove that 7.9mm 5/16 is not the same as 8.00mm when it comes to the fittings for the hardline. My 5/16 compression to A/N -06 fittings (those Goodrich type screw together fittings) did not want to go on my very nice 8.00 aluminum black coated hard line.
After a healthy dose of swearing and refusing to pay motorsport Demon Thieves prices for 8.00mm Krontec fittings I bought a 7 meter plus  coil of 5/16 copper nickel for less than 2 of the 4 needed fittings.

I was dreading this job and pipe that was harder to bend added to the fun. At least at over 120 bar tested rating I should be safe with the 7Bar max with Fuel Injection. I used Compression fittings because 37 degree single flares tube nuts and sleeves would be tricky to do in the space for me. I am using fitting from Torques on ebay which are at least as well made as Goodrich, Earls, Fraggola etc BUT way cheaper. I also use push on hose ends which are rated to 400PSI so I can build custom plumbing and simply unbolt it for servicing.

The Pipe clips came from Bresco.

(http://[img])[/img]

 


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 29, 2020, 01:42:50 PM
NB the single brake pedal pedal box is a lash up to test the brakes and fit a steering column until I have the car back for the final build.



Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on November 29, 2020, 02:39:58 PM
I'm seriously impressed with the levels of perseverance and ingenuity on display here, Eric. You're basically rebuilding a car from scratch and adding in enhancements, major upgrades and new features that the original designers would never have contemplated. It's all breaking new ground in Beta ownership and that's never easy, simple or cheap.

Bon courage, mon ami...


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mtulloch on November 29, 2020, 04:47:18 PM
The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of £350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

The Nylon blocks used all over the car have some cross over to parts used by Land Rover. But mine came from Poland following a tip from Fred's documented restoration on this forum.      https://auto-spinka.pl/

I found I could source new screw in Nylon Blocks for the whole car and the Montecarlo a god send for a car that was completely stripped. I also sourced brake line clips and some other random clips from Bresco.   

Enjoy

Eric

Thanks for that, £275 + vat is what a local firm wants to re-core the original!


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on November 29, 2020, 06:52:59 PM
The Fans front and rear come from Car Builder Solutions as I found their performance excellent on the Montecarlo with a low profile design. There is a Setrab 235 x 19 oil cooler mounted to the front of the radiator and I use 3 large studs on the base of the radiator in holes with rubber grommets in the lower cross member. I have 5mm Rivnuts fitted to the radiator top rail to mount the fixing plate which I designed in cereal box before making the alloy version.

I am using twin fans via one of the 2 new relay and fuse boxes because I want instant control of temperature spikes. Probably overkill for most people, but experience borrowed from the Monte along with running the water pump faster by using the Monte water pump pulley and the Beta Crank pulley.

I supplied a tatty VX radiator, sketched dimensioned design, fans and oil cooler to Concept Racing near Ross on Wye before discussing the power change and core options. The receipt is buried but somewhere in the region of £350. I might have found a cheaper supplier but I am happy with the quality of this critical part. I spent months looking at Radiators from other cars, but was frustrated by their poor fit.

Hi Eric, you must realise by now that all your posts of this nature elicit countless who/why/what/where/how questions. Here are mine... :D

1. Is the bespoke radiator the same size as the VX. If not, which of the dimensions have changed?

2. Does the bespoke radiator use any of the OE radiator fixing points, or are they all new?

3. Is the front fan fitted on the opposite end of the radiator to the back fan?

4. What take off points on the engine do you use for flow/return lines for the oil cooler? Are they all connected from the oil filter housing?

Apologies if answers to these questions appear obvious...


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on November 30, 2020, 01:59:53 PM
Hi Graham

Some answers, but lacking precision

The radiator is slightly wider than the VX item based on making new flat radiator box ends and getting the maximum cooling. It also has a thicker high efficiency core. I included a drain, air bleed and 22mm boss for the OE style fan switch.

I ignored the OE lower fixings because I wanted it as far forward as possible for clearance for the remote filter and Accusump fittings. By using 3 pegs on the base into grommets I had to drill 3 holes and fit the grommets to tilt the radiator forward so I could use a flat plate fixing at the top.

3 Yes

4 I use a Torques sandwich plate AN10 take off plate to use their alloy AN10 fittings for push on hose. I have a remote filter head from Toques to be fitted in front of the starter motor and have to make a fixing for the oil temp thermostat. The Accusump is fitted vertically on the left chassis leg having removed the extra unused engine shock absorber mount. Fun and games with getting the top gauge and bottom outlets at 90 degrees but otherwise it fits neatly.  I have yet to finish this plumbing because it needs the engine and gearbox installed to get right.

PS I went to AN10 from BSP fittings because they are lighter than the typical BSP steel parts and cheaper. I will never use Think Automotive again after receiving a low quality remote filter head for the Monte that gave horrible problems.

Eric     


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on December 01, 2020, 02:19:46 PM
Hi Eric,

Many thanks for that. When the time comes I may very well use the same people as yourself for a replacement radiator. My requirements won't be as severe as yours, but as the car will live in the Soth of France I think an uprated radiator with good fans makes complete sense.

I suspect you may assumed more knowledge on my part than I actually have when replying to my question about oil cooler take-offs. I have no practical experience with oil coolers and was wondering whether there are points on a standard Beta block where the oil cooler flow and return lines bolt up to, or whether some modifications are required to enable fitment of an oil cooler. If modifications are needed then it would be sensible to make them with the engine out of the car. My oil filter housing is a standard carb Beta unit with a vertical oil filter spigot.


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 01, 2020, 03:54:31 PM
Hi Graham. I recommend looking at GC's first book on oil cooler layout and components. I have:
Oil Cooler - 19 row 235 matrix by Setrab with AN -10 male fittings
Remote Oil Filter Block with 4 AN-10 ports 1 of which takes the Accusump
External Oil thermostat with 4x AN 10 ports
Oil filter take off plate and cap that goes in place of the oil filter on the engine.

I use alloy push on fittings and aeroquip push on hose. You heat it in boiling water before pushing it onto the fitting immediately. It will only come off by being cut off. You make line patterns by wasting old garden hose on the push on fittings until you are happy you have it right for the expensive hose.   

NB AN is Army and Navy from Vietnam war helicopter fittings -3 is small -12 is large. Typically -6 for fuel lines -3 for Brake lines - 4 for clutch lines and -10 for oil lines. buy the hose for the system being used or suffer later. 

(http://[img])[/img]


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: WestonE on December 01, 2020, 04:00:35 PM
The Oil Filter take off block has a sensor port for oil temperature and the 2 AN -10 fittings with silver gaffer tape currently. It can be turned 360 degrees so we will see where it ends up when I plumb it. You also see how I am feeding the OE gauges and the ECU. The tall silver sensor is an AEM pressure sensor for the ECU and is actually accurate which the OEM items definitely are not.

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Fuel Injected VX Beta Spyder
Post by: mangocrazy on December 01, 2020, 09:05:43 PM
NB AN is Army and Navy from Vietnam war helicopter fittings -3 is small -12 is large. Typically -6 for fuel lines -3 for Brake lines - 4 for clutch lines and -10 for oil lines. buy the hose for the system being used or suffer later. 
Ah yes, the 'dash' system. Took me a while to figure out but now makes sense. Where did you get your oil filter take off plate and cap from? Thanks for the info on the hose and fittings. Measure many times, cut once...

I keep forgetting about the original GC book. It's a treasure trove of information.