Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Fuel System Carb => Topic started by: 3cojones on July 25, 2019, 02:36:43 PM



Title: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: 3cojones on July 25, 2019, 02:36:43 PM

Hi All,
I am struggling with starting problems on my Spyder Series 2 so want to bite the bullet and fit an electric fuel pump as the tired old mechanical one is just so weak now.

Could someone please advise which is the best pump to fit (spec and where I can order from) , where it is best fitted and I'd it's OK to leave on the Filter King fuel regulator.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Regards, Chris


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: betabuoy on July 26, 2019, 06:28:00 PM
Hi Chris
I use a Facet Silver Top. I think I got it from DemonTweeks. It fits quite nicely just ahead of the fuel tank rear right hand side. Mine feeds through a Filter King too so that would be perfect.
Chris


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: 3cojones on July 27, 2019, 01:14:02 PM

Hi Chris,

Thanks for responding to my query. It's a thing I have wanted to do for a while now, remembering how this change made a massive improvement to my first car (Fiat 128 3p) and to a later Alfasud Sprint.

Does the Facet Silver Top pump just come in one spec ?  Did you fit it yourself or did a garage do the work ?  If you could take a pic of it sometime (if possible) and let me know where it sits height wise in relation to the tank, which type of fuel lines you used that would be a huge help. 

It'll be it's 40th birthday in 2021 and I want to get the pump fitted, the chassis professionally stripped and rustproofed and very minor paintwork sorted for then. Also want to make the effort to meet more LMC members, attend events etc.

Regards, Chris


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: simplydelboy on August 07, 2019, 09:27:40 PM
Hi all

After the problems with fuel delivery at the Beetameeta, I've also decided to fit an electric pump. However I think I'd prefer it under the bonnet rather than in the boot. I'm aware of heat issues and pull rather than push, but it seems better from a maintenance point of view, and perhaps also noise. I'm not sure if Facet do a front fitting pump so I've looked at Huco. Can any of you experts out there recommend which would be best. Also, I'd like to again thank Mark, Peter and Eric for getting me going at Beetameeta.

Regards



Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: mangocrazy on August 07, 2019, 09:55:55 PM
I've had a Huco electric pump fitted to my Spider for the last 10 years and it's been perfect. You will need to find a suitable switched live feed (Eric Weston gave me some very sage advice on fitting somewhere in these pages), and it is purposely designed as a 'pull' type pump, designed to be fitted under the bonnet. I'd have no hesitation in recommending it.


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: betaveloce on August 08, 2019, 01:36:07 PM
I also have a Huco in my Spider for over 10 years. Never had a problem with it and the car always starts even when it has been sitting for months. Electricity wise, the pump is fed from the coil via a relais.

I've had a Huco electric pump fitted to my Spider for the last 10 years and it's been perfect. You will need to find a suitable switched live feed (Eric Weston gave me some very sage advice on fitting somewhere in these pages), and it is purposely designed as a 'pull' type pump, designed to be fitted under the bonnet. I'd have no hesitation in recommending it.


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: Kevo on August 08, 2019, 02:05:44 PM
Hi
The HUCO pump is prefect for under bonnet fitment but I strongly suggest any one with an electric fuel pump whether it be in the boot or under the bonnet to also fit an electronic inertia switch, just in case of a shunt. You donít want fuel pumping everywhere. These seem a good price. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Mini-Cooper-S-R50-R52-R53-Emergency-Inertia-Fuel-Pump-Cut-Off-Switch-1068856-/273924349490 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-Mini-Cooper-S-R50-R52-R53-Emergency-Inertia-Fuel-Pump-Cut-Off-Switch-1068856-/273924349490)
No connection with sale but anything similar would do.


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: WestonE on August 08, 2019, 04:25:56 PM
What Kevo said is spot on i.e. fit an Inertia Switch whatever the pump is. It can be in the live feed or the earth as long as it cuts the pump in an accident. You can also fit a priming switch with an electric pump in case heat evaporates the fuel from the carb(s) as happens with earlier Betas.

NB Carb Betas should have a heat shield to reduce fuel heating where the fuel pipes cross over the exhaust. Lancia thankfully removed this hot start problem error on IE and VX cars.

For twin 45s you want a Facet Silver top Competition and a filter king regulator set at 3PSI. No return is fitted as these pumps sense pressure and interrupt the feed.
The Filter King with a gauge port is best, but you only fit the gauge for setting up then remove it and fit a 1/8 NPT plug. 

Enjoy

Eric


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: 3cojones on August 21, 2019, 09:56:49 PM

A massive thanks for all this chaps.  I may go for the Huco 'pull' pump to fit under the bonnet with an electronic inertia switch (and a priming switch too if possible to source one).

Problem I have though is a lack of knowhow and spare time.  Could somebody tell me where would be the best place to buy these parts and what is the exact spec please.   I can only handle basic jobs, definitely crap at electrics !

Also are there any Lancia-friendly garages or mechanics around the Brighton area who could do the work with some care and appreciation of a 38 year old car.  My local garage are really thorough and well trusted with moderns but they don't really like my oldie (get the usual rusty Italian jokes !)

I remember my first Sud having a similar problem, fitted a new electric pump and it just transformed the car.

Regards, Chris


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: mangocrazy on August 23, 2019, 02:12:37 PM
This web page gives details of the different Huco pump models available:

http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/HUCO.html (http://www.gowerlee.dircon.co.uk/HUCO.html)

I suggest that part number 13 3010 is the one you want. I bought mine from Fast Road Cars ( https://fastroadcars.co.uk/ (https://fastroadcars.co.uk/) ), and they also have the pump listed in their ebay shop:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-PUMP-ELECTRIC-SUCTION-HUCO-133010-ENGINE-BAY-FITMENT-/360758769989 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FUEL-PUMP-ELECTRIC-SUCTION-HUCO-133010-ENGINE-BAY-FITMENT-/360758769989)



Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: simplydelboy on August 27, 2019, 11:00:59 AM
Thanks for all the info guys. I borrow the use of a local unit with a mechanic pal of mine so I'll post up the result when I've got the job done, hopefully next week.


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: 3cojones on September 06, 2019, 12:47:20 PM

Hi,

I've ordered a Huco 'pull' pump' to fit under the bonnet from Fast Road Cars (thanks Mangocrazy !).   As for the electronic inertia switch to cut off fuel supply can anyone recommend a new one up to the job (the item in the link that Mangocrazy provided was sold !).   Also as for taking the feed off the coil which type of relay would I need - a link to Eric's original post would be very useful to give to the garage for wiring it up.

Thank again for your guidance and advice - I can't wait to jump in the car after it's been standing for a while and it will actually start !

Regards,

Chris


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: mangocrazy on September 07, 2019, 11:55:12 AM
I've been running mine piggybacked off the coil, but found that voltage from that source was well below 12v, leading to erratic operation. I'd make sure that you have at least 12v at the coil take-off (check with multimeter on DC) to avoid the same problem.


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: 3cojones on September 10, 2019, 02:16:25 PM

Thanks for this - I will make sure the garage check the voltage at the coil. Could it be fed directly off the battery ? Anthony at Fast Road Cars recommends a 3A fuse so some kind of fuse holder it will be.  My fusebox is absolutely packed and only recently had it partly rewired due to a few shorts, so a separate supply would be easier.  Any ideas on the relay type ?


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: HFStuart on September 10, 2019, 03:11:13 PM
If you have a ballast resistor next to the coil take the supply from the 12V side of that.


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: peteracs on September 10, 2019, 04:25:23 PM
I've been running mine piggybacked off the coil, but found that voltage from that source was well below 12v, leading to erratic operation. I'd make sure that you have at least 12v at the coil take-off (check with multimeter on DC) to avoid the same problem.

As mentioned, the only way the coil voltage should not be nominally 12V is if there is a ballast resistor in series, if not then something is amiss and you are most probably not getting the correct voltage at the spark end.

Peter


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: peteracs on September 10, 2019, 04:30:08 PM

Thanks for this - I will make sure the garage check the voltage at the coil. Could it be fed directly off the battery ? Anthony at Fast Road Cars recommends a 3A fuse so some kind of fuse holder it will be.  My fusebox is absolutely packed and only recently had it partly rewired due to a few shorts, so a separate supply would be easier.  Any ideas on the relay type ?

Not sure I would want the pump to be powered ALL the time. Running it from an ignition switched supply with the impact sensor switch would be my suggestion. Whether that is via a relay is your call. If you mean having the relay switched via the ignition and then the main feed to the relay direct from the battery side, I cannot see any reason why that would not be reasonable.

Peter

Peter


Title: Re: Looking to fit an electric fuel pump
Post by: mangocrazy on September 10, 2019, 07:46:29 PM
I've been running mine piggybacked off the coil, but found that voltage from that source was well below 12v, leading to erratic operation. I'd make sure that you have at least 12v at the coil take-off (check with multimeter on DC) to avoid the same problem.

As mentioned, the only way the coil voltage should not be nominally 12V is if there is a ballast resistor in series, if not then something is amiss and you are most probably not getting the correct voltage at the spark end.

Peter
Thanks Peter, I'm pretty sure there is a ballast resistor in series. I'll try taking the feed off the 12v side of the ballast resistor.