Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Transmission => Topic started by: Neil-yaj396 on March 24, 2019, 08:31:03 AM



Title: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on March 24, 2019, 08:31:03 AM
The 1300's MOT (more later.....!) necessitated a swap round of cars and taking the ie to Pudsey. Entering a fast bend I changed down to third.The gear was selected but the stick immediately went limp in my hand and no further gears could be found. After stopping for a think I was able to proceed to my destination in third gear, a great tribute to the torque and sheer grunt of the 2000ie engine.

It is possible to select gears at the gearbox end, and the linkage there makes a vague movement when the stick is moved, so some connection remains. Just seeing if anyone else has had a similar experience, and if so which part of the linkage had failed, or any thoughts?

I'll crawl under the car next weekend and see what I can see.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Faiure
Post by: WestonE on March 24, 2019, 10:14:50 AM
The hopeless weak cross link. Go through and re bush the whole linkage and use the HD Ideal Link Mark supplies in place of the weak cross link.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Faiure
Post by: peteracs on March 24, 2019, 02:33:11 PM
Hi Neil

You should be able to see it from above, albeit you will need a torch.

Agree with Eric, the original if you still have it will be well past it's sell by date.

Peter


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on March 24, 2019, 09:29:24 PM
This part?

https://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p180/Gear_linkage_Ideal_Rod.html

I'm putting together a bit of a shopping list for Mark, so I can easily add this on.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: WestonE on March 25, 2019, 10:41:05 AM
Hi Neil

Yes that part plus a full set of new bushes and the replacement gearlinkballs if he still has them. Fixing the gear linkage will transform the drive of the car.

Eric


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: peteracs on March 25, 2019, 09:31:20 PM
Hi Neil

If Mark does not have them, you can buy the kit here

http://www.fiatlancia.us (http://www.fiatlancia.us)

Peter


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on April 01, 2019, 09:24:24 AM
This will be why the gears are not selecting! Not the cross link. Total failure of a bush.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on April 29, 2019, 07:59:31 PM
Any recommendations as to how to get the ball joint into the Betaboyz bush without breaking it? A much tighter fit than I expected. At £26 a pop I don't want to risk cracking it by using a hammer...


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: betabuoy on April 29, 2019, 09:01:40 PM
Hi Neil
Iíve not fitted these yet but the nylon should soften in boiling water and, to ease the press, try washing up liquid as lube.  Iím keen to read other advice if itís out there; otherwise, get the kettle on!
Chris


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: betabuoy on April 29, 2019, 09:35:33 PM
Further to my last, been reading back a few posts and found Ericís post:

ďPut some waterproof cycle grease inside the nylon cups and use G clamps or water pump pliers to squeeze them nylon cups onto the pivots. This will transform the gear shift.Ē  So I guess itís G clamps and confidence! 

Hope this helps.

Chris


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: peteracs on April 29, 2019, 09:59:45 PM
Hi Neil

A long time since I installed these, but do you have to install the ball first or install the bush into the bar first?

There was also a comment in my instructions not to use grease as it causes issues with the bush long term. I guess the issue then is how to keep water out from causing rusting of the ball which was present on all of the balls I recovered some to an alarming degree.

Peter


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on April 30, 2019, 07:07:11 AM
Yes, Mark's instructions say no lube and G clamp to get the bush into the link after installing the ball joint. The issue with a G clamp for installing the ball joint would be keeping it straight, as it will need a hell of a lot of pressure.

Not sure about water as Peter says.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: WestonE on April 30, 2019, 08:50:59 AM
Hi Neil

I have done this successfully. I would press the bush into the link first using boiling water thick rubber gloves a g clamp and large sockets. I use cycle grease in the cup because it is water proof, will not damage the nylon and gives a longer service life. You next press the pivot into the bush using the same hot water large sockets G clamp/ water pump pliers approach. When fitted add a circlip to the groove in the bush made for it and job done.

PS any rough pivots (filter does not let me call them B**s) should be made smooth and shinny with metal polish if you have not got new ones.

Enjoy the result and try not to swear. It does work.

Eric 


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on May 01, 2019, 09:53:46 PM
Thanks Eric, where do the sockets fit into the procedure?


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: WestonE on May 07, 2019, 03:12:33 PM
Hi Neil

Around the outside of the bush pressing on the metal ring of the linkage so the pivot can press into the nylon which expands.

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: mangocrazy on May 08, 2019, 02:57:44 PM
While I was in France I was reading this thread and remembered that I had two bushes and ball joints sitting in the garage, so I decided to give it a go. Instead of using boiling water I used a hot air gun and instead of G-clamps I used my Record vice (other makes are available...)

It all worked remarkably easily. I found a large nut (spanner size about 24mm from memory) and placed that between the pointy part of the bush and one jaw of the vice. I used two nuts on the threaded portion of the ball joint so that one nut was fully home against the end of the thread nearest the ball and the other nut was slightly proud of the other end of the thread. This meant that both surfaces being tightened were on flats.

I then popped a small amount of Silicone grease into the bush (silicone grease has no effect on nylon other than to grease it) and loosely clamped all the pieces between the jaws of the vice. The order was

1. Big nut
2. Bush (pointy end towards nut)
3. Ball
4. Two nuts on threaded portion of ball joint

I then gradually warmed the whole plot with the hot air gun until everything was nicely hot but not dangerously so. I then tightened up  the vice and the ball popped into the bush as easy as you like. Not much pressure was needed. Once everything had cooled down the fit was perfect; nice free movement of the ball within the bush and no slack.

I can thoroughly recommend this method.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on May 14, 2019, 07:12:29 AM
Thanks for all the tips. All done now, and wow, yes, the Betaboyz kit totally transforms the gear change as Eric says.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Ammy on May 23, 2019, 07:53:27 PM
Just had my linkage renewed and had difficulty with 5th gear,  adjusted linkage as previously,  now get all gears except reverse,  What am I doing wrong ?


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on May 25, 2019, 07:28:21 PM
Reverse is still tricky on mine. I's suggest adjusting the link on the end of the front linkage (front of gearbox). It probably needs shortening slightly.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Ammy on May 25, 2019, 09:39:36 PM
How sensitive is the adjustment screw,  I think I may be "overdoing it" when adjusting.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Ammy on May 25, 2019, 09:43:10 PM
How sensitive is the adjusting screw  ?   I think I may be "overdoing it" when adjusting.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on May 27, 2019, 12:41:06 PM
It is sensitive, less than one turn transformed 1st & 2nd on my car from unselectable to easy.....


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Ammy on May 27, 2019, 02:17:24 PM
Thank you for that info.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Ammy on May 27, 2019, 06:33:19 PM
Linkage sorted,  no idea the adjustment screw was so sensitive,  ended up using 1/4 turns to get it right.  Many thanks for all the advice.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: mangocrazy on May 27, 2019, 10:01:02 PM
That's worth knowing (sensitivity of adjuster). Tiny steps seem to be the order of the day.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 02, 2019, 01:33:57 PM
Lightning strikes twice!

After servicing the 1300 Coupe yesterday it was used for a nice drive up the Holme Valley to a lovely Italian restaurant near Holmfirth. Last set of traffic lights before home, change down from 3rd and bingo, the gear stick comes loose in my hand. Luckily even the 1300 could limp home in 3rd. At least I know how to fix it now. Perhaps the mid 60K miles and/or 38 to 40 years is as much as the linkage is good for??


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: mangocrazy on June 02, 2019, 02:48:49 PM
Perhaps the mid 60K miles and/or 38 to 40 years is as much as the linkage is good for??
That's very interesting - my 2000  Spider has done fractionally under 60k miles and is 39 years old. You may have spotted a pattern...


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: smithymc on June 02, 2019, 03:30:33 PM
Indeed. Mine is 42 now- I have had the kit on the shelf for a while, looks like Iíll be fitting it pretty pronto!

Mark


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 03, 2019, 08:50:38 AM
Indeed. Mine is 42 now- I have had the kit on the shelf for a while, looks like Iíll be fitting it pretty pronto!

Mark

It seems to be the bushes that collapse, rather than the cross link that breaks. Though while you are working on it, it is definitely worth fitting the upgraded link, as that transforms the change.


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on June 22, 2019, 09:18:28 AM
One of the joints on the 1300's cross link was very worn, so glad I ordered that as well. So both my cars now have the upgraded link. It makes the gear change feel surprisingly different, far more positive, but somehow notchy. I'm sure I'll soon warm to it, just odd after 14 years of Beta driving....


Title: Re: Gear Linkage Failure
Post by: mangocrazy on June 22, 2019, 06:50:04 PM
One of the joints on the 1300's cross link was very worn, so glad I ordered that as well. So both my cars now have the upgraded link. It makes the gear change feel surprisingly different, far more positive, but somehow notchy. I'm sure I'll soon warm to it, just odd after 14 years of Beta driving....
I suspect you're adjusting to the lack of vagueness that there is in the standard setup. The 'slop' in the standard bushes and crosslink has been removed and that's probably what makes it feel notchy.