Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Suspension => Topic started by: HFStuart on May 25, 2014, 04:45:19 PM



Title: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: HFStuart on May 25, 2014, 04:45:19 PM
I've been wondering for a while about a solution for the front wishbone bushes.

I hope Mark will forgive me for saying that the Betaboyz ones aren't ideal as they are supported by only a 7mm wide band of steel in the wishbone end. So I thought about what the options might be if I reused the old bush casing. I found one and gave the size to Powerflex.

Their sales director came back to me and suggested a Ferrari 355 Wishbone bush. Guess what? As far as I can tell it's the perfect size and shape. I'm putting some in and old wishbone today and trial fitting in my spare subframe - pics to follow and a report on whether they work or not.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: lukasdeopalenica on May 26, 2014, 09:08:30 AM
Do they fit just p'n'p?
what is the cost of a full set?


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: HFStuart on May 26, 2014, 11:23:21 AM
Camera retrieved so photos posted,

They fit really well.

I burned out the old bushes leaving the metal casing and spacer ring in place.
Then I tidied up the inside of the casing to remove any sharp edges (there will be some as they are swaged out from the inside to give the ribs that make them a tight fit in the wishbone).
The bushes are then a hand press fit inside the casings and the crush tubes a light press fit in the bush - I used a large G Clamp.

OE Bush
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/OEBush.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/OEBush.jpg.html)

BetaBoyz Bush
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/BetaBoyzBush.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/BetaBoyzBush.jpg.html)

Powerflex Bush
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/PowerflesBush.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/PowerflesBush.jpg.html)

In the wishbone front & rear
(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/WishboneRear.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/WishboneRear.jpg.html)

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/WishboneFront.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/WishboneFront.jpg.html)



Once in the wishbone the outer edges are a perfect fit in the subframe. Though they are 1mm shorter than the OE bushes, when fitted that's all on the inner end of the bush so a 1mm spacer at the narrow end of the bush will be required.

In place front

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/Subframefront.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/Subframefront.jpg.html)

and rear

(http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b178/HFStuart/SubframeRear.jpg) (http://s19.photobucket.com/user/HFStuart/media/SubframeRear.jpg.html)

The part number is PFF 17-201 and they are the front wishbone bushes for a 94-99 355. These are the black bushes and are quite hard. Speaking to Powerflex they felt that with the space available and the weight of the engine up front a softer bush would probably not last. The downside is that they are sold in packs or eight for around 170 a set. You might be able to find them individually or find someone else to split the cost with.

I'll know tomorrow but I might have a spare set available to sell.

My last thought is that if I were refurbishing the wishbone I might take the opportunity to remove the spacer ring and weld the sleeve in place - I've never been 100% convinced of the OE solution especially running higher power and grippier tyres.



Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: peteracs on May 26, 2014, 04:04:54 PM
Hi Stuart

Sounds like a good solution, maybe a group buy if they have to bought in more than normally required?

Peter


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: WestonE on June 15, 2014, 03:47:55 PM
I have wishbones and Nissan truck bushes in with a Kit Car builder for fabricating replacement wishbones with a full metal tube and proper location as the FI VX engine will pull the originals all over the road.

I need to chase this up but if it works I will have a repeatable solution for you with stronger wishbones.

No price or time scales at the moment.

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: lukasdeopalenica on June 16, 2014, 08:04:16 AM
We could also design the proper bushes and make them by ourself and they can fit perfectly. It is really not difficult. I have access to some proffessional equipment like vacuum chamber, autoclave, lathe and even 3D printer. The only thing we need is a good design of the bush and 2 component polyurethane of proper mechanical parameters (hardness, tear strength, etc).
There is also a proffesional bushing manufacturer in Poland. I think they can offer as a 1/5th the price of the powerflex when we make an order. In such cases we have bushes that fit ideally with no need of additional washers etc. Worth considering.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: riverhead on June 01, 2015, 02:14:04 PM
Hi Loukas
Did any progress become of making bushes in Poland?


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: lukasdeopalenica on June 02, 2015, 08:12:40 AM
Hi,
Because my aftermarket replacements are still fine I was not forced to invent an alternative solution so far, but if I do I will inform you straight away, I promise :)


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: peteracs on January 10, 2016, 10:12:41 AM
Hi All

Does anyone have any of the Powerflex/Ferrari bushes for sale or want to split a pack?

Peter


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: rossocorsa on January 10, 2016, 11:47:39 AM
Hi All

Does anyone have any of the Powerflex/Ferrari bushes for sale or want to split a pack?

Peter
If you want to buy and split a set I'll probably take the other half, the more I look at the betaboyz ones the less convinced I am about the support they have. PM me and we'll see what we can sort out


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: peteracs on January 26, 2016, 12:24:08 AM
Hi Stuart

The part number you quoted above is PFR 17-201, but a quick look on Powerflex have them as PFF 17-201, am I correct? The last F I assume means front which is what you suggest they are for.

Peter


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: HFStuart on January 26, 2016, 10:50:10 PM
Peter,

My mistake  - it should indeed be PFF 17-201 - I'll correct the post.

Stuart


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: peteracs on May 29, 2016, 10:22:15 AM
Hi All

I purchased a set of the Powerflex bushes and they look to be pretty perfect fit part from the length which is slightly too small as noted by Stuart.

When I measured the OE parts it appeared to me the extra packing was at the larger end not the smaller end and the amount on my car was approx 1.7mm comparing the central metal bushes OE and Powerflex. I managed to source some 1.5mm stainless washers via Ebay which fit pretty well to take up the slack.

I am however left with two questions.

1 - Am I missing something and the spacer should be on the short side?

2 - The original bush has raised longtitudinal rubber lines which marry with the grooves in the inside of the bush housing, thereby restricting turning movement. So should the new purely round bushes be installed dry or is it acceptable to use some grease or other to allow easier installation of the bush and the central metal barrel? the reason I ask is that they are a tight fit, but do not want to do any damage and a small amount of grease would help. You also have two ways of installing, bush first and metal barrel second or with the metal barrel installed in the bush before pressing into the bush housing, which would you suggest?

Thanks

Peter


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: rossocorsa on May 29, 2016, 03:52:46 PM
Not all beta bushes have those ridges in some bush housings are smooth.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: HFStuart on May 29, 2016, 06:07:13 PM
I deburred the inside of the sleeves and then used an adhesive to bond them in place  - all the movement will then be on the central bush.

That's probably overkill though. Greasing them to install them is perfectly normal practice. Washing up liquid works pretty well too.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: rossocorsa on January 02, 2017, 08:19:34 PM
Just been looking at the bushes, I think the ridges on the outer casing are there simply to indicate where they should be pushed into the wishbone as they seem to roughly match the funny clip thing that goes around it


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: rossocorsa on February 07, 2017, 06:22:30 PM
I see Mark has revised his bushes to the same idea using the outer sleeve of the old ones http://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p599/New_PU_Wishbone_Bush_.html (http://353652584127257704.weebly.com/store/p599/New_PU_Wishbone_Bush_.html)


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: lukasdeopalenica on February 08, 2017, 08:44:58 AM
I like the idea!


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: peteracs on February 08, 2017, 09:17:39 AM
Hi

Yes, looks a good solution, bit late for me as I went for the Ferrari ones, but good price for compared to them and will be correct size etc, just wish I had not thrown my old bushes now......

Peter


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: rossocorsa on February 08, 2017, 09:22:34 AM
Hi

Yes, looks a good solution, bit late for me as I went for the Ferrari ones, but good price for compared to them and will be correct size etc, just wish I had not thrown my old bushes now......

Peter

I'm not too worried as the 'ferrari' ones are good quality, my main concern was that I recall a few people had issues with Mark's original design so the update is a positive step for him.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: Per on November 16, 2019, 10:31:02 PM
I have just replaced the bushes in mine with OEM pattern bushes from ebay Italy. Perfect fit and all is well. Had to fabricate pullers to extract the old ones and pull the new ones in.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: Neil-yaj396 on November 18, 2019, 08:25:02 AM
I'd be interested to see a photo of the puller you made up. I've heard of people having to burn the bushings out.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: Per on November 25, 2019, 09:00:07 PM
Extracting:
The narrow ring fits where the bushing protudes into the vee, NB! I inverted it in the picture!!!
The large cylinder allows the wide outside end of the bushing to come into the cylinder without being pulled out of kilter and jamming in the wishbone.


Title: Re: Solution for front wishbone bushes
Post by: Per on November 25, 2019, 09:06:22 PM
Inserting:
The short cylinder to the right sits outside the vee and fits onto the larger end of the bushing.


Title: Steering wheel puller
Post by: Per on November 25, 2019, 09:21:35 PM
And while I am at it, here is the very simple steering wheel puller I made. The two bolts fit in the steering wheel boss into ready made threaded holes made for the purpose.