Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Body => Topic started by: gengis on April 21, 2013, 11:03:22 AM



Title: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: gengis on April 21, 2013, 11:03:22 AM
My door cards are not good...The padded vinyl section has come away from the backing material in places (see photo).  Has anyone done a successful repair to these? or should I try and replace?

The hardboard would be easy to replicate, but it's the material and the padded vinyl re-instatement that worries me!


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: J3SHF on April 21, 2013, 07:08:05 PM
I'm sure someone on here has repaired their door cards and surely finding others in good condition is going to be hard especially when it comes to matching the sun faded cloth.

Id have a go at repairing them first if if it doesn't work then replace anyway.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: dougdee123 on April 22, 2013, 11:40:54 AM
I have to say that I would be very happy if the cards on mine were as good as those appear to be. :)

Mine have fabric that is stained and very baggy due to earlier attempts to clean it. The (faded and stained) coloured cloth comes away from the backing and flops anyway. If you use something like a carpet cleaner it becomes even more baggy. I tried using steam, on advice, to shrink it back again but with no luck.

In addition the hardboard backing on mine had become wet over the years and curled and when I replaced it the results were very poor. That was due to my personal lack of skill.

As far as I can see there are no replacements available except that occasionally Felix at Lancia ZA has had some but in the wrong colours for you ( and me).

So the only answer seems to be that you can get a trimmer to make a replacement but this may be a bit expensive and definitely non original. The man I spoke to proposed taking the urethane padding out of the top and bottom black bits and recovering them with a leathergrain vinyl. Then making an insert for the coloured bit and reattaching the segments to a new door card. The main snag was that he couldn't match the fabric and so you are then dragged kicking and screaming down the path of retrimming the whole interior including the seats. I was quoted 1250 last year for cloth or 1600 if I wanted alcantara seats. If you are prepared to bankrupt yourself in this way you still have a non standard interior.

If I had cards like yours I think I would just replace the hardboard and see how that turned out.

Doug


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: MattNoVAT on April 23, 2013, 05:59:26 AM
Replicating/replacing the hardboard is fairly straight forward, the material of its sagged can be removed and reattached and stretched tighter so that it gives a better look, but because the material is quite old and prone to fatigue because of the effects of UV light, it's often very tricky getting it off without damage in the first place, but it can be done.

If your vinyl is black then it is possible to recover those sections, re-using the original sections and re-glueing them to the hardboard. 

The water damage ( blown hardboard or warping ) is due to either blocked drain holes in the bottom of the door or the plastic covers missing from between the inner face of the door and the inside face of the door card ( usually green plastic ).

It's a job the requires time, patience and the right tools ( very sharp blades !! )


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: VXdeMayo on April 23, 2013, 08:09:45 AM
Dear Gengis,
Matts right, it's a donkey load of work but it can be done. However I have a pair of cards like yours that are possibly in a lot better condition. The vinyl is not split, the material is good and the hardboard on one of them is fine. One has some water staining / warping to the board, and the very bottom of the black vinyl has a couple of small "nicks", but they might be a good start to a better look?
Give us a bell.
Chas and Anne. :)


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: gengis on April 23, 2013, 08:15:11 PM
Thanks lads...I'm getting a pair of Chas, Thanks. 

However I'm going to tackle this job at a later date when I've more time.  It does look a bear of a job though, I was thinking along the lines of MattNoVat's procedure, only thing is..the vinyl has shrunk and is not as supple as it once was.  I even thought about cutting and shaping a piece of mdf to replace the padded vinyl section...!


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on April 23, 2013, 09:40:31 PM
Hi

If you are based anywhere near the Midlands, the guy I used for re trimming my seats and door cards made a really good job and not expensive. I know the material would need to be reused, but the vinyl should be possible to replace. If you were interested in talking with him, send me a PM.

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: spud on April 24, 2013, 10:38:04 AM
I'm about to tackle this very job. I've stripped the door cards and remade the hardboard part from 3mm plywood, varnished. The 'vinyl' really isn't vinyl, more like a seriously cheap plastic sheet. Utter crap. The material middle section is bonded to the plastic vinyl thus making the door covering into one big sheet of nastiness- should be fairly easy to separate the material and bond to a new door card though I would've thought. The actual shape of the door panel is formed by a fairly solid type of foam- once I separated the covering from it I found mine to be in excellent condition. I propose to stick the foam to my new doorcards and recover in a nice grained vinyl. As I'm having the seats retrimmed anyway I don't have any material to match so not a problem for me. (My old material is there if you want it- free of charge.) I'm hoping that the 3M glue I'll be using will be enough to make the vinyl stretch around the odd shape of the foam sections and stay stuck. The vinyl I have is very stretchy so I'm hopeful. If not, I have made a separate piece of 3mm ply for the middle section that I will be able to fit on top which will hold everything in place. I also got some new clips to reattach the whole thing back to the door- get Lancia Delta clips and remove the plastic grommets from the door so that the bigger Delta clips fit straight to the metal hole in the door. Better clips than the no-longer-available Beta clips and they'll provide a better grip than the tired originals will too.
Good luck with whatever route you take!

Andrew.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: J3SHF on April 24, 2013, 01:22:26 PM
It would be great to have some photo's taken whilst you guys are doing this for future reference, it's a job that more than a few will have or be contemplating lol.

I just need to buy a Beta now, I'll start looking in the next few weeks and wait until something comes up lol


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: gengis on April 24, 2013, 10:26:35 PM
Spud...sounds like a plan, I wondered if covering the door card first, covering the foam then gluing them together would get a nice finish edge...Hmm.  It would mean you could go for a contrasting colour in the mid section, what do you think?
I would certainly take any buckshee material.

John.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on April 25, 2013, 07:06:16 AM
Hi All

I will take some photos of the cards and you can see what the trimmer achieved. On the pre f/l cards there is vinyl top and bottom and he used the same leather as on the seats for the centre section, together with some brightwork trim he had. Not sure where he glued it, but can ask if anyone wants to know.

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: spud on April 28, 2013, 12:24:50 AM
It would be great to have some photo's taken whilst you guys are doing this for future reference, it's a job that more than a few will have or be contemplating lol.

I will do- should be on with it soon. Going to pick up my leather seats from the trimmers in a few hours, I'll post pics of 'em when I get a chance.
 
Spud...sounds like a plan, I wondered if covering the door card first, covering the foam then gluing them together would get a nice finish edge...Hmm.  It would mean you could go for a contrasting colour in the mid section, what do you think?

I can certainly see what you mean but I'm not sure it would work. Would depend very much on the material choice. I think vinyl would be too tough to get a nice sharp edge round the foam without distorting the foam shape when you pulled it around the back to stick it.

I would certainly take any buckshee material.
John.

No problem- PM me your address details and I'll send it to you. I'll be using it as a template first, but once I've finished with it it's yours mate.  :)

Andrew.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on April 30, 2013, 01:02:05 PM
Hi

Here are a couple of shots of the door cards. The backing is a fibre board formed into the shape of the contours of the card. I repaired the water damaged bits with PVA and some sheets of soft fibre material which we originally bought as frost protector for outdoor plants. I applied it like building up fibreglass layers and it has worked a treat. The covering is vinyl top and bottom with some of the leftover leather for the centre section. Down the join the trimmer put some strips of chrome effect plastic which set it off well and cover the join. The vinyl is stapled all round the back section to the card.

From what I understand he only glued around the edges of the vinyl.

I have also included a shot of the centre console which he also recovered in the vinyl.

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: spud on April 30, 2013, 09:40:38 PM
Peter,
Very nice work on the door panels. The earlier ones look to be a lot easier to recover than the later, curved foam type. And I actually prefer the design.

Andrew.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on April 30, 2013, 11:02:42 PM
Hi Andrew

Yes, I would suspect so if it is just preformed foam beneath the vinyl, rather than preformed fibre board. I think it would interesting to get the views of a professional trimmer on how they would tackle it. If you wanted me to ask the guy who did mine how he would tackle it, I would be happy to do that.

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?- REBUILD !!
Post by: angelom on July 16, 2014, 01:48:52 PM
Hi Guys

I tackled my door cards recently, and I must warn, its not for the faint hearted!. I did mine in marine grade ply 1.5mm, and marine grade vinyl - black,
LOTS of contact cement, and a very strong two pack glue for the trim parts.

1. Take off all the old plastic and foam carefully separate the cloth insert. if still OK , can be reused as once unpicked, stretch it out and iron flat after wash.  if material not good, then use fabric from the roof section of a donor HPE preferred as there is more.

2. Template and cut of new board including holes for trim clips/ door handle .  you will need to separate the top door card frame and external strip, drill out all rivets.

3. glue the vinyl to foam 1st and then cut /trim and glue and wrap the vinyl to  the inside lip of foam , leave external

4. glue and staple the cloth insert in EXACTLY THE SAME position of old on the new board with backing as well.

5. As the vinyl doesn't have a lot of stretch, 1st glue and wrap the door grab handle area, so no wood is showing later.

6. HARD BIT. measure and double measure where the foam will sit on the panel and mark out on cloth. as you will need to glue both sides of inside and you don't want glue everywhere. glue 1/2 inch inside of edge .  once done carefully mate/join foam and board together. press/weigh down  and allow to bond correctly.

7.Almost done, wrap and staple all around, screw down top alloy rail with new short screws thru to metal rear frame.

8. Now for the modifications. As the original door cards were machine made, you cannot recreate the press fit for the door lock or the grab handle surround. I found the BEST way around this is to
- grab handle surround.  cut off lugs , and glue down with very strong 2pack glue( NOT ARALDITE). may have to  have to vice press to get the best pressure
-Door lock silver surround. Also and glue down with very strong 2pack glue( NOT ARALDITE)








Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: lbcoupe76 on July 16, 2014, 10:45:51 PM
Peter your door cards have given me hope. They are even the same colour as mine and they have come up a treat.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=596.0;attach=1770;image (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=596.0;attach=1770;image)

What did you do for the door handles?

Angelom, that's a fantastic job.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on July 16, 2014, 11:12:37 PM
Peter your door cards have given me hope. They are even the same colour as mine and they have come up a treat.

http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=596.0;attach=1770;image (http://www.betaboyz.myzen.co.uk/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=596.0;attach=1770;image)

What did you do for the door handles?

Angelom, that's a fantastic job.

Hi

Thanks, cannot take any credit, using a professional trimmer makes all the difference, they know all the tricks.

On the door handles, if you mean the chrome effect surrounds, I have a pair or later matt silver coloured ones with complete lugs to fit. The original ones had many of the lugs broken, so would have to be stuck on which I did not want to do. For the door release button surrounds I have the originals which are in good condition.

Angelo, nice finish, I would imagine it took a lot of trial and error to get there.

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: lbcoupe76 on July 17, 2014, 03:59:49 AM
Sorry Peter i meant the arm rest/grab handles. Mine are all cracked and deteriorated.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on July 17, 2014, 08:21:03 AM
Sorry Peter i meant the arm rest/grab handles. Mine are all cracked and deteriorated.

Ok, understand, mine are in good condition, so will just reuse as is, not sure if I have any spare ones in usable condition, did you want me to look?

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: MattNoVAT on July 17, 2014, 08:10:52 PM
I have have door grab handles if Peter cannot locate his spares.


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Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: lbcoupe76 on July 22, 2014, 11:57:51 AM
Hi Peter and Matt, certainly would be interested in grab handles if you have them. PM me and let me know what you would like for them.
Cheers guys.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: MattNoVAT on July 22, 2014, 05:17:44 PM
What colour are you after? Black or brown?


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Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: lbcoupe76 on July 28, 2014, 03:15:46 AM
Hi Matt, after brown ones (black would be okay).
Thanks.


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: JohnFol on July 07, 2023, 10:17:32 AM
I know this is an old thread but it contains some great information.
When making replacement door cards, the bit that worries me is fabricating the contours. How are people "sculpting" the panel for the 3D effect?


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: SanRemo78 on July 07, 2023, 11:52:58 AM
This project was on my radar for my Coupe but since I sourced a replacement interior it's dropped off. One door card is gone from the handle downwards and the other is water damaged but will provide a template for the backing cards. I am going to make a batch of these from 4mm plastic sheeting that's rigid enough for the job and should be easily routed/drilled for all edges/holes. It's actually an agricultural product for sheeting fences/pig enclosures! I'll have to make a router pattern from plywood but it ought to be easy enough to bond the internal door covers to it with Sikaflex or similar. I wouldn't want to try stitching through it though.

It may be a while before I get to this but if anyone else wants to take this over and run with it I'm happy to help!

Guy


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: WestonE on July 07, 2023, 05:15:10 PM
Hi Guy

Pick a plastic you can staple to as contact adhesive or Sikaflex is not enough. I had mine made in plywood, but something weather proof and softer would have been a good idea.

Eric


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: peteracs on July 07, 2023, 05:32:02 PM
Hi John

I have a pair of door cards from an IE Coupe, one is water damaged down the bottom, the other is undamaged, both are good as far as the fronts are concerned if you need any.

Peter


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: SanRemo78 on July 07, 2023, 06:43:49 PM
Hi Eric - thanks for the advice, I've just tried it and a simple paper stapler punches through it very easily.

Cheers
Guy


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: JohnFol on July 18, 2023, 03:49:18 PM
Hi all, my aim is to make a new set, rather than just retrim but on-line articles show stretching, gluing or stapling fabric to a flat board. What I can't work out is how to make the raised sections as shown in the first post.

Plan A is to take a mold of the original, and fill with "something" such as foam, or fiberglass. Covering will be more tricky than on a flat surface particularly as I want a soft touch, i.e. foam backing. Has anyone made the 3D parts of the door card, who could offer a bit of advice?


Title: Re: Door cards...repair or replace?
Post by: WestonE on July 19, 2023, 07:04:48 AM
Hi John

The door card is flat with a metal section attached by machine pressing it into the hardboard! The moulded structure bits come away easily from the old backing once all the staples are removed. For me the tricky bit was working out how to pop rivet the metal bit to the new plywood backing. If I had used a plastic that can take staples I might have been able to hammer the OE metal tangs into the plastic to hold the metal section.

A more fiddly job than I expected.

Eric