Lancia Beta Forum

Technical stuff => Brakes => Topic started by: WestonE on March 15, 2012, 08:02:24 PM



Title: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on March 15, 2012, 08:02:24 PM
Chaps

As some of you know I am creating a Volumetrico Supercharged Beta Spyder and felt I should upgrade the brakes to cope. Well I finally have the calliper mounts made by Pulse Racing so I have taken a few photos for those also interested.
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Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: Hawk on March 16, 2012, 11:46:01 AM
ooooh - car porn  ;D


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: lanciamad on March 18, 2012, 09:36:26 PM
Very nice :)


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: mangocrazy on March 18, 2012, 10:48:27 PM
I think a step by step 'how to' along with costs involved would be an excellent thing... I really like the idea of uprating the brakes on my Spider to modern 4 pot opposed piston technology, but wonder about what else needs to be done, and what the costs are...


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on March 19, 2012, 07:32:49 PM
Graham

Hang in there I am working through it in careful stages including the clearances for 15 inch wheels which are tight (I currently have a very slight touch of the outer calliper edge on the inner balance weights). Some areas are clear the discs are Fiat Coupe/ Integrale 284 x 22 x 43 items so widely available at a good price, the callipers are Hi Spec Motorsport 132 4 items with 4 x 41.2 pistons and the pads will be Ferrodo DS2500 to start with. I am using Integrale hub centres in the Beta front uprights and high tensile bolts bought to suit. I still need to build and check the front Goodrich hoses. Importantly the MC is re-plumbed to have the mixed circuit feeding both front callipers and the former 2nd front circuit feeding the rear. The extra pipes to the front are redundant and best removed. The rear bias valve is adjusted to give maximum flow to the rear statically and may need to be bypassed to get the best balance. I have looked at alternative rear solutions, but that is not a priority on a Beta with so much of the braking required at the front.

I did of course work through the pistons sizes, areas and pedal travel ratios in the standard system first to understand the base position and also looked at weak areas like the flexy 8mm cross link on the RHD cars. I know Barry Waterhouse RIP used to change pedal travel ratios back in the day, but never got the specific details and it is too late to ask now.

These Brakes need replacement wheels and tyres to get the best from them and I will probably end up using Compomotive 16 x 7 MOs in place of the 15 x 7 Azev As I have for the car today, but no rush on that decision. Mark W will be most likely to road/ track test these first on his race special.

Eric           


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: markwast on March 19, 2012, 09:21:04 PM
HI Eric
Calipers have been ordered, with same pads, disc arrived today, Tarox Japan discs. All i need now are the brackets. I have ordered hoses that i fitted to HPE too.
I know from the other Hispec calipers i fitted to my HPE, wheel (spoke) clearences were had to be considered in the choice of wheel I could used with this set up. Pics shows a set of 15inch wheels i had lying around, but i have a set of ROTA 7x16 wheels waiting for tyres and then will be fitted. With a 5mm spacer, they just fit over calipers.
 
As for the racer, new set of alloys arrived today  :) .


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: mangocrazy on March 19, 2012, 11:13:49 PM
Excellent stuff, Eric. Sounds like a huge amount of time, effort and research has gone into this. I'm watching from the sidelines with great interest...


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: andybeta on March 27, 2012, 11:44:21 PM
Yes great work Eric and Mark. I have a set of 17" wheels that I've long wanted to use with bigger brakes but that I have never got around to using as the brakes have always been stumbling block.


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on April 18, 2012, 05:39:41 PM
OK Chaps I have just collected a set of the modified mounts and checked them. They now run the pads inside the disc radius as they should and as a bonus the 300 R132 4 callipers clear the balance weights on the inside of my 15 inch Azev A wheels so no issue at all for 15, 16 or 17 inch wheels provided there is enough space for the calliper body to clear the spokes. Wheels with the centre set in and a wide shiny rim might be a problem whatever the diameter. Pulse made 5 sets of mounts I have one Mark W has another so 3 are available before they have to run another batch which tends to take a while. Perhaps Marcus could test this out on the track!.

I might have Hi Spec R32 6 Callipers actually fitted to my Montecarlo at Bristol if things go to plan, but mark will be first with the 4 piston Callipers on a Beta.

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: lanciamad on April 19, 2012, 08:54:56 PM
Perhaps Marcus could test this out on the track!.
It would be nice to hit the roads again with it :-\ Hope to make Bristol, look forward to having a look at them.


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on April 22, 2012, 06:44:07 PM
Chaps

I have the Hi Spec R132 6(piston) Callipers fitted to my Montecarlo paired with Hi Spec B4s at the rear and DS2500 pads. I do have a Ford Transit Master Cylinder making them work but WOW I now have amazing brakes with serious power that can be fed in at will. In some ways they are better than the huge brakes on my Audi A6 Sport.

 I actually had the R132 6 for 275 discs converted to fit a 284 disc and this has worked really well with the calliper nicely wrapped around the disc and good wheel clearance. This might be the way to go on the R132 4 Callipers as well although I already have the 300 version for the Beta and it fits both the disc and the 15 inch wheels.

So I will bring the Beta assembly and a Montecarlo with the R132 6 fitted.

Eric
PS I will collect Mark's mounts this week as well.   


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on April 23, 2012, 09:03:17 AM
Chaps

I have checked the figures and I suggest anyone going for this conversion buys the Hi Spec Motorsport R132 6 275 calliper with spacer blocks modified for 284 disc as I have fitted to my Montecarlo. This is because the fit is better and the 6 pistons give a more even load on the pad reducing the chance of pad taper. The piston areas are close enough to make no difference between 4 x 41.2 and 4 x 31.2 & 38.6 x 2.

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on April 24, 2012, 09:03:00 AM
Chaps

For the rear I am investigating using the Hi Spec Ultralite Radial Calliper with 2 x 38.6 pistons fitted which works with the front conversion giving good balance and sensible pedal travel:  http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/UL280R.html (http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/UL280R.html) This would also have the LNK Handbrake attachment fitted:  http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/SPOTLNK.html. (http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/SPOTLNK.html.) I am at the drawing board with this one, but expect to use the existing disc/hub as assembly as it with an interface mount. Do not expect this finished quickly as it takes both my time and my money to get these things done.

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: rachaeljf on April 26, 2012, 10:08:57 PM
Hello gents, this is a very interesting read. May I purchase a pair of those caliper mounts you have Mark?

How do you chaps get on with HiSpec brakes? I have read a few horror stories about their customer service!

Cheers R


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on April 27, 2012, 07:01:05 AM
Rachel

The mounts are made by and sold by Pulse Racing Engineering in Slough http://www.pulse-racing.co.uk/ (http://www.pulse-racing.co.uk/) and these mounts have gone quickly so they only have 1 set left from the current batch. You will need to source the 12.9 grade plated bolts. Apex Fastenings in Slough can do this for you: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=929&bih=1027&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=apex+fasteners+slough&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=apex+fasteners&hnear=0x487663427e9e92a9:0xb16ca352b90b0206,Slough&cid=15040335824841071279. (http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/place?hl=en&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&biw=929&bih=1027&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=apex+fasteners+slough&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=apex+fasteners&hnear=0x487663427e9e92a9:0xb16ca352b90b0206,Slough&cid=15040335824841071279.) I may have 1 set of bolts in my workshop, but would need to check.

Hi Spec certainly have their customer service challenges, but this often starts with people expecting consumer product service from a small family run engineering company that is making to order. My advice is confirm what you want in writing by post or email and then expect to call to check progress twice expecting it to take a month for things like custom Calliper changes to the R132 6 as is required here. If you want instant delivery and great service that would be Rally Design who supply the Wilwood Callipers. BUT they will not/ cannot modify to suit our needs which is fine for a kit car or mass vehicle like a Ford Escort or perhaps for race with twin balance bar MCs. The other point of course is value for money the R132 6 Calliper is an excellent piece of engineering, cheaper than anything even remotely equivalent and you have a really good choice of pads which is not the case with some of the Wilwood callipers. 

I have of course tried to make this a great value solution so no floating discs on alloy bells here, but that only really matters with discs larger than 300mm diameter that need big wheels.

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: rachaeljf on April 28, 2012, 12:46:25 AM
Very good, many thanks Eric  :)

Cheers R


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on April 30, 2012, 02:24:21 PM
Rachel and others

I will be re-selling the R132 4 300 Callipers with the 4 x 41.2mm stainless steel pistons to allow me to fit the 6 piston parts. They have never been used beyond mock up for the mounts and will be 420 verses new at 559.20.

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: 75coupe on September 22, 2013, 12:27:26 AM
Dear All,

Just wondered how everyone is getting on with the Hi Spec conversion and how it performs. I am building a full race GC engine for my coupe and definitely need to throw the standard front setup in the bin now....

I have sourced some Fiat 500 Abarth 284 x 22 x 43mm discs locally which I presume are very similar if not the same as the Integrale ones?



Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on October 15, 2013, 09:35:47 AM
Ian

Sorry for the slow response I have some serious domestic challenges with my wife's health.

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: mangocrazy on July 16, 2018, 02:31:21 PM
Apologies for resurrecting a long-dead thread, but the set of 4-piston Hi-Spec calipers and mounts that were the original subjects of this thread have been to Australia and back and now reside in sunny Sheffield... I met up with Ian (75coupe) on Saturday and relieved him of said calipers and mounts in return for negotiable beer tokens. The 284mm ventilated discs are on order and I'm now on the look out for either a set of Integrale 8v hubs or some adaptors to enable me to fit Thema Turbo 16v wheels to this set up.

Good things come to those who wait...  ;D


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on July 16, 2018, 02:40:08 PM
Hi Graham

And I will be fitting the 6 piston version to my car when the shell comes back from being painted in late August. Of course I do have the small challenge of the whole car to finish before I get to use them!

Cheers

Eric


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: mangocrazy on July 16, 2018, 05:49:27 PM
Eric,

Last time I saw a photo of your Super-Monte it was black. Has it stayed that way (or am I thinking about a different car)? Either way I'm sure it will look and perform superbly well...

Graham


Title: Re: Upgraded Beta Brakes for 15 inch wheels
Post by: WestonE on July 16, 2018, 06:27:48 PM
Hi Graham

The Monte is definitely Black and staying that way from the respray at Christmas. I was talking about the VX FI Beta Spyder that I am building now (which will be light blue metallic). Once I slow down on the build work I can write more, but it will be a VX Coupe Interior, Gaz coilovers suspension, with a GC big valve head special engine with a GC prepared zylan coat VX unit. The engine is mostly finished just waiting on some parts being plated at the moment then I will share some pictures.

Back to the workshop.

Eric