Lancia Beta Forum

Hi everybody  ;)!

 I bought a red '81 Lancia Beta Coupe 1300 a few days ago . I want to restore it   for myself within one year - now it has many failures yet: body, electricity, painting. I also have other Lancias - a Kappa 2.4 20v, an Y10 Missoni ( http://picasaweb.google.com/MyKappa2.4/Y10Missoni# (http://picasaweb.google.com/MyKappa2.4/Y10Missoni#) ).. And an A112 Elite under restoration - but after buying the Beta now I want to present it to anyone, because it's too little for me - I'm tall and "wide" ;D

Here in Hungary I'm one of the leaders of the local Lancia community, I usually organise meetings, and now we try to base a new Lancia Club here, because the older one hasn't been available for the last few years.. The page  "lanciak.hu" and the new hungarian Lancia owners' forum ( forum.lanciak.hu ) is also managed by me.

I already have some question about Beta, but now I have too much work , so I will try to return  with them in the evening or tomorrow.

Hi Andrew,

Welcome to the forum, I think maybe you are the first member from Hungary.

Are there many Lancia in Hungary, can you still get spare parts easily?

Nice work on the Y10, you do all the work yourself?

We look forward to your questions  ;D

Hi :)!

I've seen 2 coupes and 1 HPE from Hungary in a Beta registry ( http://www.betasportmodels.net/registro.htm (http://www.betasportmodels.net/registro.htm) ) but it's very-very rare by us. There are only 1-2 pcs of Montecarlos, 10-20 HPE-s and maximum 5-10 coupes - I guess.. I drove it only one time in my town 2 days ago - but many people looked back on the streets..

In Hungary <'90 people could buy only East-European cars, so the West-European cars -produced in the '70s-'80s- were imported generally as second hand cars - mainly from Switzerland and Austria and Italy. There are many Lancias here but mainly Delta-Dedra-Kappa-Y and other younger models. My Y10 is originally imported from Switzterland , my Beta coupe is from Holland.. You can also see some donors here - for example nowadays a HPE and a coupe Volumex: http://www.autoalkatresz.hu/auto-bontott_jarmu/jarmu_bontasra/lancia_beta_volumex_hpe_coupe_bontott_jarmu-147719 (http://www.autoalkatresz.hu/auto-bontott_jarmu/jarmu_bontasra/lancia_beta_volumex_hpe_coupe_bontott_jarmu-147719)  

My Y10 Missoni is used by my wife for driving to work, so it was not a real hobby car restoration with high budget (I restored it myself) - it is used every day because of its ~5-liter-consuption. I have bought it for  160EUR, and have spent ~ 1000EUR for changing most of the parts..

So the questions  ;D ;D...
-The drapes of the seats seems to be raunchy, and I want to have rather leather seats. Is the pattern and, sewing and form the same by the leather and non-leather seats? So can I take it simply to an upholsterer, or do I need a used  leather seat-set as donor? - If I want to have original look leather seats.. I would like to have the local oldtimer qualification, so that's why it is important for me..

- Were leather seats also for 1300 basic model (in'81) orderable? And also black and beige for red cars??
- Can I find the color code somewhere on the car body?
- Do the different engine versions have the same radiator? -Unfortunately I need to buy another one :(...

Today I was lucky, so I could get some spare parts from one of my friends :) :






  

Hi Andrew,

Welcome to the forum.

Nice to see your 1300 coupe. There are not very many in the UK either and i have not seen one in red before. Good luck with restoration

regards
Graham

Wow - also 1300 ;)?? - Fortunately I met another Beta coupe owner on a Hungarian youngtimer forum a few days ago - so I am already not alone here :)! He also knows 2-3 other beta coupe owners in our country..   

Your car is in much better condition than mine - I guess :)..

 I got a Beta Coupe serie 2 FL catalog for this Christmas and scanned it today - If you don't have it yet or anyone else needs it, then it is available here for a few weeks (soon will be these downloads password protected):

http://download.lanciak.hu/BETA/Lancia%20Beta%20Coupe%20catalog.pdf (http://download.lanciak.hu/BETA/Lancia%20Beta%20Coupe%20catalog.pdf) 

[quote author=AndrewJ l I would like to have the local oldtimer qualification, so that's why it is important for me..

- Were leather seats also for 1300 basic model (in'81) orderable? And also black and beige for red cars??
- Can I find the color code somewhere on the car body?
- Do the different engine versions have the same radiator? -Unfortunately I need to buy another one :(...

Today I was lucky, so I could get some spare parts from one of my friends :) :






  
[/quote]

options such as leather seats will be market dependent afaik they were never offered in the UK but were in some mainland countries I don't know whether they were available on a 1.3. Colour code should be on the bootlid underside radiators did vary in size according to engine and if air con fitted. going back to the leather i think you'll find the seat pattern was the same and anyway it is very unlikely that any official would know more about a Beta than you will ;)

Thank you for the information!  I 've found  some pics on  the german lancia beta page (lancia-beta.de) too. If they are true, then leather seats were available only between '79-'81, so it can be really very rare -I guess :(. For me can also be interesting the TVE imitation leather, but I don't know how durable it is.

As I know - the air conditioner was not available for 1300 models, but if the engines have different radiators, then first I will try to send it for a radiator restorator here in Hungary. I 've found some specialized workshops for this. Fortunately all kind of car repairing is relative cheap in my country - there are many professional car restorator services here that work 90% for export because of the lower price..

The oldtimer qualification is not so easy by us  :(..  It is true that the delegation knows less about betas than me, but when they have any question, or they are in doubt about something the I must demonstrate the things and I must have the car documents for that. That's why I collect any kind of beta documents. I won a german original factory Beta repair document on a hungarian auction a few days ago. I have bought a haynes beta book too, and have already downloaded many beta pdf-s (mainly french)

I have lots of beta documentation if you are ever stuck over anything please ask! To give you an idea

http://s724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/lancia%20beta%20brochures/?action=view&current=075c953c.pbw (http://s724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/lancia%20beta%20brochures/?action=view&current=075c953c.pbw)

this is some but not all of the beta brochures I have, I have a lot missing because they printed many variations!!!

My 1300 has leather seats (red/blue). Chris Bastow (ex Betacar) recons that they were an aftermarket item sold mainly in Germany.

Hi,

Wow!! Maybe you can get in the Guiness book  ;D. It's a very-very large collection ;). Thank you for the offering - Now the most important for me is a a high quality/resolution electrical plan for 1300 coupe, because my car is a real electrical trouble. For example on the cockpit works simply nothing except km/h mechanical measure. My favourite issue is electrical repairing - I love these errors - and have also some instruments such as digital oscilloscope & others, but I have now only a low resolution PDF plan of 1300 coupe - that I can read hardly without a high quality zoomed copy. I hope, that the haynes book contains it  :)..  I have to wait for some days, because I ordered it from the uk ebay..

But I would be very thankful, if you could send me once in the future  - when you have enough freetime for it -  some catalog pics of a '79-'81 coupe with original factory leather seats ;) ! 

Maybe He's right - till now I 've read only about black and beige orderable leather seats, except some 1st serie TVE seats. I like leather seats very much, but my wife hates it - that's why my Kappa has only blue alcantara seats as a compromise, and her Y10 Missoni has an alcantara-Missoni velour combination. But Beta coupe would be my own hobby-car - that's why I am thinking about leather - my wife would sit in very rarely :)..  

American market cars had leather seats (but they didn't get 1300s) I'll try to find some pictures when I have more time just changing the underbonnet and in tank fuel pumps on my MG ZT what fun!

By the way someone on this forum has black leather seats in their series 2 FL but I can't remember who

Only  these  cars ??? ? I also know, that 1300 coupe wasn't orderable there - but these are bad news for me, because then it means, that I will have to have two seat sets - one for the oldtimer  qualifications and another with leather  :). I don't know if my beta has the original drape, because I haven't seen this type of carpet on any betas on the internet. It is a bit bizarre for me in a sport coupe with these leafy branch motifs :)...

Never seen this before either. I think that someone did some "interior tuning" at one time or another!
Looks original though  ;D

never seen that before I'm sure it isn't original but at least the stitching pattern appears correct! Series two FL coupés usually used the same wool cloth as Berlinas but some German market cars appear to have had the 'L' cloth same as the later Gamma coupés

this is the usual cloth
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/beta/100_0080.jpg?t=1293614395) either grey or light blue

German market I think this picture is of a HPE but I think coupés were also upholstered this way

(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/volumex/DSCF0263.jpg?t=1262179376)

Yes - maybe the owner was a gardener or feng shui fan  :D :D..

Yes I have seen many betas with L cloth on autoscout24.eu  - but most with the style on the first photo. There is also a HPE  with L style cloth in Hungary for sale :

http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/lancia/beta/lancia_beta_hpe_2000_a_c_friss_muszaki-4167481 (http://www.hasznaltauto.hu/auto/lancia/beta/lancia_beta_hpe_2000_a_c_friss_muszaki-4167481)

Maybe I will buy a used grey style seat set in Italy and will simply change the cloth on my seats to leather  :).

I am pretty sure that leather would have been an option in Italy no time to look further at the moment but will check later

the brochure that you uploaded quite clearly states that leather was available! I'm still looking for a decent photo though

....and can't find one , I have a brochure of an American spec. FL coupé which in the main photo clearly has black leather seats otherwise the interior shots are all of FL spiders which had the same seat pattern. I would have thought that was enough. Lots of pics of earlier style interiors in either vinyl or leather which is ,of course, of no use to you

Yes, but I haven't found the country for which it was published. It is an English language catalog, but all the cars on the pics are left hand drive, so I guess - it was printed  not for the UK market.. And it is interesting, that there are no sample pictures of leather seats.

I watched all the betas on autoscout24.eu, but I have found only 1st serie coupes with leather seats - so I don't know   :)...

In general the practice of Lancia, at least post war and up to the 80s, was to produce brochures centrally in Turin sometimes in the format of multiple languages French/English/German/Italian and others individual prints in different languages. The format of the brochure and the pictures would usually be the same Europe wide the brochure you have is such a generic brochure and would have been used in the UK and Irish markets plus possibly others where English was a second language. As these brochures were generic they listed all available options but not all options would, in practice, be available in all markets.What can be quite certain is that all options would have been available in Italy, the 1300 Beta was an important car in Italy due to taxation etc. but was not so widely offered abroad as 1600 and 2000, it was available in the UK (up to S2 FL  it was never sold in the UK in S2 FL2 format) but as far as I can tell not in Germany at least in S2 FL format. The early S2 1300 was actually not marketed by Lancia as a 'Beta' but as a 'Lancia 1300 Coupé' intended as a substitute for the Fulvia, it had a unique grille style and a bench type back seat.  Importers sometimes produced their own leaflets as well which may have supplemented or replaced the generic brochure and in particular the German market  had locally produced brochures because, compared with other markets, the S2 FL2 cars had different upholstery (the 'L' cloth the same as Gammas). I hope this helps I'm no expert this is just my understanding of the brochures as I see it but maybe someone else with more in depth information would like to comment?

So Italy can be the key for me :-) - then I will try to ask someone in Italy - who is a Beta fan - Thanks ;-)!

thanks for links to downloads both rossocorsa and andrewj

forum member johnb's car has a black leather interior. It looks great and I think may of been sourced in Germany. This is from Tonys album;

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/5179354077/#in/set-72157625394540114/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/tonysphotos/5179354077/#in/set-72157625394540114/)


My interior is the blue/grey as in the earlier photo. I certainly havnt seen your interior before Andrew, its very unusual.! 
I have wiring diagram for left hand drive beta. I can copy it for you.

cheers
graham

Thank you for the photo!! - I hope, that my Beta will look like this car within one or maximum two years  :) Maybe if you have a sanned wiring diagram, then it would be useful for me, because the quality of mine is very bad. But if the Haynes Beta book contains it, then I hope to get it next week, so then I don't want to disturb you with this  ;)!

diagram in Haynes manual is quite small print but just about readable. Any problems then let us know

Maybe this is a stupid question , but could anyone tell me if the Beta Coupe had an official car radio trademark (f.e. Audiovox, Becker..) or type? So  did the clients have an opportunity to order it with any radio or cassette player from an accessories catalog?

I started to collect old '70s car radios on the local second hand market and would be happy to find an "official" Beta radio  for myself :)

I think Voxson was a common choice but I suspect each individual importer used their own preferred brand. Voxson is by far the most 'Italian' though. Personally I wouldn't bother and would get a cheap cd/radio/sd/meory stick blue tooth radio from Aldi when they next have an offer on (do you have Aldi in Hungary??)   

Hmm - Voxson? - Thanks for the tip ;)

Yes - You are right, but I don't want to use the radio often. The sound of the engine is good enough for me  ;D. Now I have a Kenwood HIFI system built in - but I want to get an oldtimer qualification, and then I must build in an older one or take it simply out (but I don't have original radio cover panel). I can buy these old radios just for a few euros here, so it's the best choice for me  :)

you could fit an IO play and simply stream music from your mobile phone by bluetooth that could be fitted in a very discreet way I think you could even fit it without a radio at all and hide the volume control
http://www.my-io.com/Products/iOPLAY.aspx (http://www.my-io.com/Products/iOPLAY.aspx)

you can find them much cheaper than on their website (try ebay) and it works really well

Yes  :) or I can simly buy a FM transmitter ( http://cgi.ebay.com/Lcd-car-mp3-player-fm-transmitter-usb-mmc-sd-remote-/320691220431?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item4aaaafafcf (http://cgi.ebay.com/Lcd-car-mp3-player-fm-transmitter-usb-mmc-sd-remote-/320691220431?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item4aaaafafcf) )

I guess that I will buy one, because I like these old radios. They are easy to use and are easily repairable and have less trouble than the newer car HIFI systems..

Anyway - we have Aldi in Hungary  ;) ( http://www.aldi-hungary.hu/ (http://www.aldi-hungary.hu/) ) and also Tesco  ( http://tesco.hu/ (http://tesco.hu/) ) ;D

A few weeks ago I bought these radios&cassette players for a few euros:

I'm afraid fm transmitters are pretty rubbish so long as the MP3 on your phone is good quality, has an equaliser and it supports A2DP the IO play will give you really good  quality sound no reception issues I use one in my MG ZT in most cases sound is nearly as good as CD. The IO play has its own amplifier and sits connected between the radio and speakers switches automatically if you receive a call or if you have bluetooth MP3 music player on, very easy to fit especially if you have iso connectors, you can also bluetooth your sat nav  through it and it will interrupt the radio  ;D

Well - then it can be interesting :). But with two small factory size speakers I don't think that the quality will be the best.  And I don't want to cut any other speaker holes. I have a very good quality custom HIFI system in my Lancia Kappa. Maybe if I want to listen in good quality, then I will choose that car :).

Anyway - I bought new rear lenses on ebay for my beta coupé. I would like to have the chrome frame of the rear lights rechromed, but unfortunately the cast has deep corrosion and is a Zn-Al alloy. Does anyone know sources to buy this frame (new)?

Yesterday I talked with my friend - he is working for a very large aluminium foundry in Hungary - they produce f.e. turbo cases for Garrett and many truck parts. He will try to ask his bosses if it is possible to found this frame in aluminium in small quantity.

 

Hi Andrew

new ones occasionally come up on ebay. have a search on ebay.it aswell for 'lancia beta fanale'
i will let you know if i see any here too

Thanks  ;) - I have been searching for it in the last few month on all Europen ebay sites, but I haven't find it yet  :(..

Nowadays my Beta coupe is under restoration - this week I took many parts out for sandblasting and zinc coating/repainting. During this I found a polish (I guess) text on the windscreen washer bag, but "made in italy" on the washer motor.

Later I began to watch Beta coupe ads on internet, but I could find rather washer tanks on most photos than washer bags. Were some betas originally equipped with bag, or is this an alternative aftermarket version?

Early Betas had washer bags, there are maybe three different designs that I know of.

Later cars changed to hard plastic.

no promises but I'll try to check my spare rear lights I may well have a better frame than that, I do have one brand new one but don't want to part with it at the moment but might do later on (my car is a VX so needs painted frame anyway)

Thank you for the information  ;) - then I leave it in the car. After the cleaning it seems to be in very good condition. I don't thing that mine is still the original, butit  can be a spare part for beta and maybe other old italian cars.

Thank you - I also got a new idea - maybe I should fill the holes and spray it with a professional 2K chrome paint. But I don't know if it would be hardy enough..

I have another question :).. I don't think that it is enough interesting to open a new topic, so I would rather ask here:

I have found a deeply rusted small area on the plate front right - that can be seen on this photo. I must patch it with a welded small plate. Does anyone know, where I can find the other side of this plate part? Inside the car behind the cockpit, or outside behind the front wing?

I have my front wings off (and a lot more) will take some pictures to try to help I'm not sure if that goes to the outside or interior will know more when I've looked. With that level of rot i think you need to take the wings off and have a really good inspection

I think on a 1981 it should be a hard plastic bottle

(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0088.jpg?t=1304249918)(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0089.jpg?t=1304249918)
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0090.jpg?t=1304250014)
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0091.jpg?t=1304250037)

appears to be in a double skinned  area (?? not 100% sure feel around the dash board end and you'll see what I mean) behind the dashboard, that corrosion is quite surprising for a car with wheel arch liners and I am guessing as it's a 1300 that it has no sunroof. I suspect you might find that the square reinforcing section that runs under the top of the front wing is rotten this is typical of the early coupés that had no plastic inner arch liners but rare on later cars. I'd be inclined to remove the wing and investigate further it'll be safer that way anyway as otherwise you will not be able to see any areas that are getting overheated whilst welding

Hi,

Thank you for the photos ;-)! Today I analysed it closer. The rust is on the top plate of a hollow section - that runs inside the car, not behind the front wing ( I looked behind the front wing and it seems to be in very good condition without any rust).

I broked through the rust and looked inside the hollow section with mirror and lamp. Fortunately it seems to be only a local problem. My car has a sunroof anyway :) and also plastic inner arch liners. I think that the problem was caused by the top plate under the windscreen. I can see handpainting and rough handfilling on it. Maybe it was rusted and the water reached through the rusty hole this hollow section and because of leaves and dust the water couldn't flow away.

It will be a very hard work to weld and repair without taking the car apart  :(..

I noticed that there is no gap between wing and the panel under the windscreen so yes there is heavy filler in this area, have you felt underneath this panel? I suspect you have heavy corrosion on the corner of the windscreen surround this is a typical area of corrosion especially on cars with sunroof (blocked sunroof drain tubes etc. )  with a sunroof it is important to keep the tubes clear, you are also likely to find corrosion at the front of the sill behind the front wing this is caused by water exiting the drain tube directly into the sill, a good modification is to pull the drain tube through a convenient hole that you will find at the front of the sill and passing it behind the plastic liner so that it drains directly onto the ground, it's a pity Lancia didn't do that!! If you are serious about renovating the car to the standard you have talked about I'm afraid there is probably no option but to remove the wing and investigate fully.

Current state of my right hand sill
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0102.jpg?t=1304372127)
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0105.jpg?t=1304372127)
(http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww247/rossocorsa/100_0100.jpg?t=1304372223)

one of these days it might be ready.....

Yes there can be corrosion there, but I cannot see it yet, because it is repainted and first I must remove the paintig. It's a new information for me, that the sunroof has draintubes here, but I will check it, because I had also many problem with my Autobianchi A112 caused by closed drain tubes (f.e. this was caused by that: http://blog.lanciak.hu/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/CB6.JPG (http://blog.lanciak.hu/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/CB6.JPG) )

The right front wing is already partially unset.  My original plan was to restore everything in the engine bay in the first round, but I already can see that I must restore everything in one round in the front of the car if I want to do a nice job. I think that with unset front wings it is much easier to remove and respray the undercoating there.

the drain tube goes down the front pillar then directly down to the front of the sill where it drains into the sill as i mentioned this is not ideal as it causes corrosion of the sill end

Hi Andrew

i have a new rear light surround for the right hand side. At the weekend i may get a cheap one for the other side. i will let you know and you can have them if they are of any good for your restoration project

regards
Graham

Hi

Sorry for the late answer :(! I've bought my wife's favourite car for her (Chrysler PT Cruiser). It was very cheap - but with engine failure. I rebuilt another engine and now I'm making an aut. transaxle overhaul. I have been working on that car day and night, so I must have a break at the Beta  project for a few month.

If the light surround is still available, then I am interested in the old pair  ;)

Anyway here are the latest photos from my Beta project:
https://picasaweb.google.com/103220166446302840291/LanciaBetaCoupe1300RestorationPhotos

- and the reason for the break  ::)..
https://picasaweb.google.com/103220166446302840291/ChryslerPTCruiserProjekt?authkey=Gv1sRgCL-5guOV6f6bTw
https://picasaweb.google.com/103220166446302840291/41TEAutomaticTransmissionOverhaul?authkey=Gv1sRgCLjq0JqTk7yN2AE

Wow .you really are busy !.  Good luck with the Chrysler engine.

G